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Surprised this needs to be said, but new messages got at the bottom of the page.
Bugs edit Edit
Why did you revert my edits on the Sniper Rifle page?Edit
I thought my edits about how you could pick up a sniper rifle for free at Camp McCarran and at a very early level and with no negative reputation impact were useful were useful , so why did you change it back? Unless you can give me a credible reason for your actions, I will change it back to my version.--Jojobobo (talk) 19:25, August 18, 2014 (UTC)
Well would it be okay to include it in a Notes section? Even if it amounts to "strategy" I think it's incredibly useful for new players. At the very least, people should definitely be a mention that the sniper rifle is not owned. Let me know if you think a Notes section or a much shorter addendum to locations. I have this drafted for notes: "Unlike many items at Camp McCarran the sniper rifle in the First Recon tent does not count as owned, meaning it can be taken in plain sight without any loss of NCR reputation. By using Stealth Boys obtained in Goodsprings to access New Vegas early, this sniper rifle can easily be obtained before level 5." Obviously I would use the appropriate Notes heading using two equals signs either side and slot it in between Bugs and Locations. --Jojobobo (talk) 17:17, August 19, 2014 (UTC)
So as you recommended I had a quick look at guidance pages and found this under the common mistakes of the community guidelines:
"Deleting without announcing that you're doing it. Remark on it in the edit summary box. Otherwise, other users who care about the page's development will be caught unaware, and may think you're being intentionally sneaky.
Deleting without justifying. Deleting anything nontrivial requires some words of justification in the edit summary or on the discussion page."
Both of which you did. I'll add my comments as a Note as I mentioned above as from looking at the item guidelines there should be anything wrong with that (furthermore, there's nothing explicitly stated about not including that information in Locations, will still leads me to believe your edit was overly judicious and pointless). --Jojobobo (talk) 17:45, August 19, 2014 (UTC)
- Okay, I'll definitely make the fact it is unowned readily apparent - but still raises the problem of there are other unowned rifles on that list which wouldn't be flagged up in such a way. The whole idea of flagging it as unowned is to enable a better experience from the player, and make them obtain a sniper rifle more easily.
- Further I still don't see the problem with a strategy comment - isn't that useful to a player? Fact is, even if you don't get to the Strip early, it's the best place to get a free sniper rifle period. Sure you can get one in the Legion safehouse, but for that you have to have reached the strip. The Hoover Dam option requires murder, and all other free (i.e. not purchased) sniper rifle locations are either further North than Camp McCarran and/or require travailing more dangerous areas (for example if you travel up the far east side of Vegas you might hit the Strip and Freeside before McCarran, but the area is rife with Fiends). The fact that it is unequivocally the earliest point at which you can get a sniper rifle is to me unarguable, and to me deserves a mention - care to venture why that isn't a worthy addition to the wiki? Even without conscious "strategy" this is still an extremely good location to obtain the rifle, and if I'd known about it sooner (and the fact it's unowned and lying around) is where I would have got one on previous characters - as I wasn't aware it seems like this is a failing of the wiki as its dramatic ease of access wasn't highlighted.
- And fine, I'll try to keep multiple edits down - ordinarily I type something and then spot any minor typographical errors I've posted and change them too. --Jojobobo (talk) 19:26, August 19, 2014 (UTC)
- I've really stripped down my comments on the rifle now if you look at the page, adding to the relevant locations entry: "This rifle is unowned, and can be considered the earliest point to get a free sniper rifle without having first reached the Strip." You're going to have to be very specific about what the problem is if you revert it, as "can be" demonstrates it's an opinion whilst at the same time being of use to players - it removes the strategy element as well considering I pointed out above there is no way normally you can get a free sniper rifle earlier with so little hassle. If you want me to expound on this more I can do (as Hoover Dam is arguably just as close but requires killing, so it is the easiest place to get one without skill investiture) I can do, but as you want this information to be ridiculously parsimonious in order to meet your standards I didn't feel as if further clarification was necessary. --Jojobobo (talk) 19:44, August 19, 2014 (UTC)
- Another user wants you okay this before it is set and stone. I don't see much to pick fault with, so you're going to have to be very specific if you find something wrong, otherwise I'll post up the changes along the lines of we reached an agreement on an appropriate change. --Jojobobo (talk) 20:05, August 19, 2014 (UTC)
- Fine, can I make the change "This item is not considered owned by the NCR and can be picked up without penalty."? I think that is a fair enough change considering almost everything else in McCarran is owned, so a player looking at that page might very well naturally assume that was the case here too. That is completely devoid of any remote strategy, and it is presenting a useful clarification. As you said people can just check these things out, but I think people would naturally assume it's owned as so it is useful to point out it is not (I thought it might be Boone's bed hypothetically, but there's no way to confirm that). --Jojobobo (talk) 20:29, August 19, 2014 (UTC)