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Bethesda's motion to dismiss is denied, the court demands documentation from Interplay
Here's another episode of our continued coverage of the Bethesda vs. Interplay courtroom drama.
During a motion hearing held earlier today, Bethesda's partial motion to dismiss Counts I and II of Interplay's recent amended counterclaim was argued in court and denied by judge Deborah K. Chasanow. As a reminder, Bethesda wanted the court to dismiss Interplay's counterclaim because the agreements that, according to Interplay, Bethesda has breached, are "clear and unambiguous" and that "no cause of action for breach has been stated" as, according to Bethesda, the agreement clearly does not require Bethesda to allow Interplay the use of any Fallout intellectual property assets other than the name Fallout itself for its Fallout Online MMO. The court's denial to dismiss the motion does not necessarily mean that the judge agrees with Interplay's interpretation, simply that Bethesda's interpretation is not as "clear and obvious" enough to dismiss it.
Additionally, however, the court stated that Interplay has until February 7 to comply with the court's yesterday's ruling on Bethesda's "Motion to Compel". Judge Chasanow dismisses some of Interplay's objections, stating that:
“ Many of Interplay’s responses to Bethesda’s discovery requests – including many of its supplemental responses on the motion to compel - are boilerplate objections. These objections are not useful and the parties are urged not to use them.” |
Interplay is ordered to provide within 14 days:
- The monthly sales of pre-existing Fallout games worldwide, including Fallout Trilogy, in dollars and units in order to establish any damages from Bethesda’s trademark infringement claim
- A response to “contention interrogatory” that seeks to glean the factual basis for Interplay’s claim that it complied with the Trademark License Agreement’s (“TLA”) financing provision
- Facts concerning any financing it secured after April 4, 2009 and any development efforts after the same date
- Documents documenting the company's relationship with Interactive Game Group and Masthead Studios
- The long-form agreement with Masthead Studios
- Documents concerning packaging for the Fallout games
- Documents concerning distribution for the Fallout games
- Documents relating to Interplay’s affirmative defenses of estoppel, waiver, ratification, acquiescence, consent, laches, and unclean hands
- Documents relating to Interplay’s counterclaim
- Documents relating to Glutton Creeper, an Interplay licensee
Interplay is not required to reveal privileged information, but "must expressly assert the claim and describe the withheld material" Due to Interplay's hesitancy to provide some trade secret design documents as court evidence, they are to be provided only to Bethesda’s outside counsel and not to any of Bethesda’s “business decisionmakers,” including its in-house attorneys, and are to be designated "Confidential – Outside Counsel’s Eyes Only". .
The judge also states that Interplay is mistaken when suggesting that Bethesda's requests improperly state the terms "Minimum Financing" and "Full-Scale Development" "as fact" and do not meet the specificity requirement of Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. According to the court statement:
“ The terms are found in an agreement that Interplay signed, and it is not unreasonable to expect that Interplay could form some good faith understanding of what Bethesda is asking for.” |
Both parties will jointly advise the Court of any discovery disputes by March 1, 2011.
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263 comments
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I have no idea who is winning this court case. I'm quite happy that there will be 2 upcoming Fallout games, from which to decide a real winner.
Then again, what if Inter make FO:OL great, and Beth make a great F4? That'd be lovely. Then maybe they'd make up, merge, and make Fallout: New New York. Then when it came to naming the company, it'd all fall apart, as both BethPlay and InterSda sound godawful. And we'd go through all of this for F5.
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Honestly I'm hoping they can set there differences aside (which I doubt) but because they are both important Interplay gave birth to fallout where Bethesda made it the game (most) love. I played Fallout 1,2,and tactics there story Wonderful! game engine in my opinion I hated I SUCK! with a computer controllers are all I am good with so I hope they can learn to get along and work together combining Interplays story ideas and Bethesda's gameplay/game engine
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All the nostalgia fan-boys who keep saying fallout 1 and 2 are better and claiming that because Interplay started the Fallout franchise they are the best, do not make any sense at all because if that logic played out all the time in real life, then Ford would make the best cars, Apple would be crap at making phones and mp3's, Microsoft's computers would be terrible, we advance further by advancing ideas. Bethesda took the idea and made it better than Interplay's idea, Also before anyone says anything (like I'm a troll or a new age fan-boy)I have played Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 (yet to play tactics) and liked them but not as much as Fallout 3 or Fallout new Vegas. (Sorry if anyone did not like what I put, just my opinion) : )
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Reading through all the comments made I forget about what this article is aimed at and I would just like to say that Bethesda is being awkward but so is Interplay, meaning that this dispute will not end in good favour for either side unless they both sort their ideas out and just stop acting selfish. (there is no "black or white" only grey) (Once again just my opinion please do not take offence.) : )
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Denial of a motion to dismiss doesn't really mean anything, though it does sounds like the court is willing to give Interplay a solid bit of slack when it comes to the interpretation of the needed FOOL project milestones.
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I'll bet what'll happen is that Interplay will be forced to hand over the profits made on the Fallout Trilogy, and Bethesda will have to allow Interplay to use any Fallout-related materials for their MMO.
I still think FOOL will suck balls.
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in my view, anything not free sucks.
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Yay ! Maybe this can be David Fincher's followup to The Social Network ? Great drama here in this back and forth lawsuit.
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This is stupid if interplay signed over the series to bethesda, and bethesda made the game big then why does interplay decide now to come out with an MMO after the fallout name has been made known by bethesda. Thats just interplay sticking their hands in the proverbial cookie jar. Seriously have any of you actually heard of a fallout game before fallout 3? and where the hell is my elder scrolls 5? lmao xD
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You might want to read better. This isn't Interplay barging in after the fact and making an MMO. It was part of the deal with Bethesda.
"Seriously have any of you actually heard of a fallout game before fallout 3?" Are you for real? Do you suppose that all of the Fallout, Fallout 2, Tactics, FOBOS, etc. content on this wikia popped up when Fallout 3 hit the shelves? Use your brain.
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Considering that Fallout was a critical success, earning "RPG of the year", and sold more copies than anyone expected, I'd answer "Yes".
(anyone else notice a bit of symmetry here... Odd numbered fallout games are "RPG of the year" and even "Follow up to the RPG of the year" use improved versions of the same engine?)
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i agree besides hardcore fanboys nobody under the age of 25 had even heard of fallout or cared to rember it b4 fo3 came out. people should bitching and be happy a new fallout game even came out instead of just leaving the franchise dead and buried.
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Awful jackass. Fallout 3 wouldn't exist without the first game. As said above, 'critical success' would indicate that some people, just a few, may have played it.
I'm still playing Fallout. So balls to you.
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Dude you make me laugh.Fallout 2 is my favorite game of all time.I was actually disappointed in fallout 3 (it left a lot of things from fallout 2 out i would have like to seen but im pleased with New Vegas just for the record) and I hope interplay wins.They gave birth to the universe that is fallout and id love to play an MMO about fallout.You can keep your Elder Scrolls just stay outa my wasteland.
Good day to you sir.
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so when is the next dlc comming?
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If I had to make a guess, I would follow the release of Dead Money being about 2 months after the game was released. On this note, I'm guessing somewhere around later February. This of coarse can always change.
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for what? FO:NV or FO3
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i'm laughing at all these other fanboy anons. Obsidian/Interplay>Bethesda my ass was the writing and story in Alpha Protocol or even anything about that game good? You can't argue that it was new ground they didn't know what they were doing blah... and I don't think Interplay has made a Fallout game since Fallout 2 that hasn't been cancelled. The spinoffs don't count because they were made by different studio's. Plus Fallout would have died if Beth hadn't bought it or it would have gone to some 3rd rate studio and end up as some crap only nostalgia drunk fanboys could like. /post
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The Black Isle division of Interplay that made the first 2 Fallout games was dissolved by Interplay and pretty much everyone in it left for different companies. Nobody at Interplay really ever worked on a Fallout game any more than people at Bethesda. But Obsidian has some people that used to be in Black Isle, so if anything, Obsidian has more experience making Fallout games than them.
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The writing, story and the way the narrative was formed is really good. Especially asshole Thorton, who puts asshole Shephard to shame. Shooting a teenage mute girl in the stomach, leaving her to die, then gloating to her guardian about it in the most vile and evil way possible? Priceless.
And Fallout most certainly wouldn't die. Again, Bethesda was just the highest bidder - not the only one.
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Agreed, Tagaziel. The quality of the writing, story and narrative just made the mechanics and AI all the more frustrating. I would've liked to have seen a sequel, as I think they could've improved on its flaws if given the chance.
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Yeah but Troika went out of business so we lucked out with Bethesda buying it.
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@Pongsifu
"Nobody at Interplay really ever worked on a Fallout game any more than people at Bethesda."
Chris Taylor and Mark O'Green.
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Obsidian makes Fallout 4 with the Creation Engine along side Skyrim's development. There's your GOTY folks.
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Fallout 4 has been made its called Fallout new vegas
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Fallout 4 has not been made. Stop picking on the anon. Fallout New Vegas is Fallout: New Vegas. Not Fallout 4. Example: Fallout: Brotherhood of steel is not Fallout 3.
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JUST BECAUSE YOU TYPE IN ALL CAPS, IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE RIGHT. No New Vegas is not Fallout 4, but simply a game that takes place a few years after Fallout 3. This of coarse does not make it a sequel.
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@Christop50441 Are you a fallout fan at all? Cause Bethesda and Obsidian even said it wasn't a direct sequel, cannon though, that means New Vegas is just New Vegas.
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The problem here is that New Vegas is a direct sequel to Fallout 2 despite not having a corresponding numerical designation, while Fallout 3 is not. It's a spin-off. Before you start arguing about developer statements, consider that New Vegas continues the stories started in Fallout 1 and 2, whereas Fallout 3 does not.
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I remember reading somthing a dev said somthing like how Fallout New Vegas is a spiritual sequel to Fallout 2. Although its not a direct sequel.
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How can it *not* be a direct sequel if it *is* a direct sequel?
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Don't ask me. Ask the Devs.
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I don't have to ask them. If it looks like a cow, moos like a cow and gives milk like a cow, then it's a cow, no matter how strong you insist that it's a horse.
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Where that assumption fails is genetics.
Think. If it has 1000000 chromosomes -- bit of stretch, I know -- it's not a cow no matter how much it may look, sound, feel, act, and taste like one. It's the same thing that separated Neanderthals and Cro Magnons, Cro Magnons and Homo Erectus, Horse and mule, bird and dinosaur.
Assuming that a real Cow doesn't have 1000000 chromosomes.
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I always find it weird that whenever there's a sequel that is not numbered (GTA Vice City, FO New Vegas, Rockman and Forte, etc) there's a group of fans who always assume that there's an unstated number, and when the next numbered entry is released everyone goes [substitute names and numbers as applicable] "GTA IV? But I thought Vice City was GTA IV!?". It's not even an issue of if it's a spinoff or a sequel (technically they're all sequels, regardless of how direct the story carries from one to the next). If there's no number in the title, then the game is not a numbered entry. It's not rocket science.
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Interplay just let then have it the are better then bethesa
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I'm having a hard time deciphering what you're saying.
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That anon was me, just so you know.
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Well, you should be more clear, just so you know. This is a great example that you don't have t be an anon to type things that are just a group of words randomly placed together.
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Obsidian should handle fallout from now on, If you disagree with me then you have terrible taste in writing and story.
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you have a great argument there...
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Writing and story < Gameplay, Graphics, Locations, etc, etc.
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@ Third Anon
What are you talking about. In a single player game, if the the story and writing sucks, then the Graphics, Gameplay, and other things are worthless.
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No, the story can be as retarded as possible. Being able to do fun stuff in freeroam has nothing to do with the story.
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You kids these days, all you care about is graphics... *shakes cane*
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At least I don't really care about graphics. Heck , I played fricken DAH 1 & 2 and I still like it.
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@ Anon 2-up
So by your logic, Postal 2 is teh best gaem evar? Story is essential to a good single player game.
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Obsidian should be closed down for the games its ruined
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@Christop50441
Obsidian has made some great games. You have no idea what your talking about.
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@ Tagaziel
.don't lump me in with the first anon, i was being sarcastic
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There have been good single player games where the story was minimal or non-existent. However, if there IS a story, then it definitely needs to be good. A game with a poor or half-assed story can be much worse than a single player game with no story at all.
If we're talking about RPGs, then yes, a good story is essential.
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I think Bethesda should make fallout games on the eastern part of the US and Obsidian on the West. The reason I say this is because, Obsidian knows Fallout better than anybody, but they only made fallout on the west coast, while Bethesda knows the eastern part of the US more than anybody.
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@ Third Anon Hope you know your talking about Fallout, without a story for this sires, even if its not canon, if this sires had no story, there would be no fallout,so there would be no point on slapping Fallout on there without a story.
PS: I still play Fallout 1 and 2 and I dont care about the graphics or even the fact the games came out in the 90's, I play cause of the story.
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@ Shadow I have every idea of what I'm talking about.
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Bethesda, just let them have it...youll get more money on Skyrim anyway...
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Don't you think Bethesda could earn even MORE cash if they don't let them have it? They'd do it even if they like, you know, got 10$.
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nah
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Phoenix Wright: Dev Drama Attorney
On a serious note, hopefully Interplay does follow the requests given. Especially given what appears to be (at least from my point of view) their advantage at the moment. I wouldn't want to lose it for not following a small list of demands. Considering none of those items seem like they would place Interplay at a disadvantage.
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Next fallout plot: The Lawyer wakes up in his small apartment getting ready for another day of trying to settle the lawsuit between Bechesda Software and Outerplay. In this fallout you will be able to use V.A.O.S. Vault-tec assisted Objecting System to help you object to the others case. Every decision you make will effect the outcome of the Lolout series, a very successful game franchise. Will you choose small Outerplay who made the first of the Lolouts and give up gratuitous amounts of money or will you choose corporate giant Bechesda Software who bought the Lolout franchise and gain gratuitous amounts of money. Or will you carve your own path? Coming out 2015
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I'd play it.
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Lawsuit's. Lawsuit's never change......
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Lol, Christop and MerchantofDeath, succesful joke :D
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Lawsuits. Lawsuits never change. After the a great chism of 2007, many of the original tribesman of the Inter tribe were forced to retreat further into the development wastes. After many moons of waiting, the Inter tribe has begun to strike into the heart of the Beths Da nation.
You are the Lawyer, a man know by many; and still made fun of by your friends. You lived peacefully, helping out wastelanders with illegal traffic tickets and property rights concerning a neighbor's kumquat tree.
Bit all of that is going to change, because........
Lawsuits. Lawsuits never change........
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Did I push a joke to it's limits?: Yes
Am I ashamed of my self?: No
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XD
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@ Christop If we made a game out of this, we would make millions...... MILLIONS!
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Accept we'd have to go through Bethesda and Interplay
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@ Christop
We'll call it Lawot: A post apokealptic roleplay. They'll never no a thing until they see the missile heading to both of their headquarters........
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Great Scott THATS GENIUS Think of the money
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Yes. And then, when we have enough money, we'll take over more gaming corporations! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!
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There'll be no more of these petty lawsuits and good games will actually have a chance to be made!
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Dead Money.
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SWEET!!!!!
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Maybe be able to get fallout EXTREME!!!!!##(!@&E!@ made It would suck but still it has EXTREME)&@#!$*^(##&$#@)*(&$)@#*^) in its title
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Yes, we shall......
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I love you guys
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at least the judge in this case seems to be fairly impartial, stomping down Interplay's Dismissal motions and telling Interplay to stop stalling. this is what you get when you bring together tow companies in a dispute who are both wrong.
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they denied Bethesdas bs
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I don't think the "court demands documentation from Interplay" headline quite conveys the reality of what happened. Interplay objected to providing all the game documentation to Bethesda and the court told them they limit the revelation to only B's outside attorneys so that no one internal to Bethesda gets to see it. Sounds like the judge again didn't give Bethesda what they wanted.
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Anyone that wants to disagree with me go ahead but I think that Interplay and Bethesda should come to an agreement and create an Fallout MMORPG along with Obsidian Entertainment.
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Good Idea just not Obsidian anything but Obsidian
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Okay. I'll disagree with you. To do a whole Interplay/Obsidian/Bethesda mish-mash would involve basically a restart, as the giant Interplay/Masthead boulder is defianly loose and rolling down the incline.
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I don't think Obsidian should be involved, frankly New Vegas was a bit of a disappointment for me. I found it far too glitchy and a lot of the missions were simple fetch or delivery quests. The overall story was decent but it wasn't any better than 3's. I did like the fact that it was post post apocalyptic which helped to differentiate it from 3 but it felt too linear and generally empty, especially in the casinos.
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Heck yes anon 2, NV seemed far to more great in the trailers that the game itself but i have a little (small and minimum) hope for the DLC's and patches to make it more decent, freakin' obsidian can s*ck my b*lls, i think a MMORPG would be childlish and a WoW with guns and SPECIAL system but...if people want it and it makes money bethesda will do it, but interplay should gtfo and make some other games and forget fallout, they sold it for christ sake!
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@ Christop50441, Anon, and Nuke-a-Punch
the defend Obsidian, you can't blame them TOO much for all the bugs. they were given an already buggy game engine to work with by Bethesda to make NV, an engine they weren't familar with to the degree that Bethesda was (to the point they hired various Oblivion modders to help out thier development crew). if they also had more time to test the game so glitches could be identified before game release, that would have helped as well i believe
not saying they are off the hook, but there are various factors that should be taken into consideration. if they are given more time to make another Fallout with a newer game engine, say Id's Rage engine, or whatever Bethesda is using to make Skyrim (rumored to be the Rage engine), i bet they'll do much better
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@ Anon2
I don't see where you are getting the idea that Fallout: New Vegas was more buggy than Fallout 3. Here was my personal experience with both (quite dislike the game engine, to be frank):
Console restart counter:
- Fallout 3: 12, minimum
- Fallout: New Vegas: 2
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Fallout 3 had bugs, but they seem to have been overlooked and obsidian writes allot better with fallout then Bethesda and nuke-a-punch, you are really generalising bethesda's fans. Seriously New veags was allot better than fallout 3 by a long shot, that's not opinion that is fact.
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@Chadious Maximus No no Obsidian is to blame ever play Kotor 2 Or Alpha Protocol
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I know Fallout New Vegas is buggier because I've played both. NV is by far the buggier of the two games and it's not just console restarts, which were worse in New Vegas, but it's also broken quests and dialogue with NPCs. New Vegas does stay true to the originals in that respect.
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You're a bethesda fan, obsidian is better hurr durrr, of course not, if they had only delayed the release they could have fixed A LOT I MEAN A HELUVA LOOOOOOOOOT of glitches, but noooooo they want fast money, also don't blame the engine, blame lazy dudes who had never made a game this big, bethesda is already experiented with oblivion even tough i hate oblivion, obsidian contrary to fanatic belief is not made of almost ANYONE with a little of knowing about fallout, so they'r technically n00bs in fallout terms, F3 was a lot better, i know it's hard to admit it, but let me say you something, new vegas has random encounters?
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Also NV has a lot of no-reason buildings, in F3 every building had a pretty interesting background, and you were also much more threatened by the lack of ammo and constant harassing by raiders/mutants, you can't say nothing to that because in NV there's a lot of empty space without creatures or enemys of any kind, so you pretty much have a lot of ammo to spend, F3 was much more lonely so companions where a lot more helpful and they could die without annoyance mode on, also, F3 was more prone to crash (during loading screens, but gameplay-wise, NV is 3 worse) but it had much less bugs, and they where MUCH MORE uncommon, in NV you can't play 1 hour without seeing a glitch, in F3 they where rare (even for me, with an unpatched game) PD: im the anon above me lol
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Uh, New Vegas has no-reason buildings? I feel it's the opposite. Most locations in Fallout 3 were filler locations with little to no backstory, whereas in NV nearly every building has a definite purpose, be it a quest or a little story element. It adheres to the Chekhov's Gun principle to a much greater degree than Fallout 3.
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You're on your own with that opinion Tagaziel, I couldn't swing a dead gecko in New Vegas without hitting a useless building. There were tons of pointless shacks and abandoned businesses that served no purpose. They didn't even have an interesting visual history like the buildings in 3 did.
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Tagaziel is not alone with that at all. You seem to believe that a building empty of anything except some radroaches and random loot has "an interesting visual history", whereas a boarded up ruin of a building in an otherwise active town is somehow useless. I think your apparent opinion is the exact opposite of reality.
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I'm not talking about those, which were a waste, I'm talking about all the buildings out in the desert that had no purpose or even a story attached to them. They were just empty buildings containing nothing of real interest. At least with 3 you could find out stuff about what happened in the abandoned buildings. With New Vegas you were just entering bland empty buildings one after the other.
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Give me an example, because I'm not following you at all. What building or buildings from the game do you feel really epitomize this?
I can hardly recall encountering any buildings that fit that description from Vegas, and yet it perfectly describes much of the exploration associated with FO3.
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LOL yeah yeah every building in NV has a interesting background, ill tell you what it is: SUNSET SSPRL STAR BOTTLE CAPS, pretty much the only reason 90% of the boring and plain locations in NV are there, in F3 every building had AT LEAST a holotape with something interesting example? the building full of ghouls and the story about the dude who became a glowing one, with all the cult of ghouls and everything, is there ANY like that in NV? (aside from bright brotherhood?), also anyone has yet awnsered my other arguments. NV: no random encounters, when any other fallout game (i don't know about FOBOS and TACTICS but i know about 1,2,3 and NV), had them? obviously obsidian was out of ideas so they copied and pasted an empty shack with a freakin sunset sarsaparilla to shove it up your...pip boy..., and also companions are really futile in NV, as they won't leave you unless you are too dumb to lower your reputations, and also they can't die without annoyance mode (hardcore mode on) wich is not a challenge, but an annoyance
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You don't have arguments, you have rants. You fail to properly rationalize your claims, so people just ignore you. Your attitude doesn't help either.
Actually, I'm going to start ignoring you too.
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And the winner is Nuke a Punch by a forfeit! Way to go man reason prevails.
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@ Nuka
There was empty space in New Vegas because that's the way things should be: a wasteland covered with a few larger settlements, not a location filled with illogical five-person settlements. Also, most locations in New Vegas do have holotapes, and a lot of locations in Fallout 3 existed for no reason whatsoever, or just for a unique weapon. It's really the same thing. There were random encounters in New Vegas, but you had to take the perk. Companions leave if you ask them to, and frankly, at least they CAN die/be knocked unconscious in New Vegas. Nothing ever killed them in Fallout 3
And frankly, New Vegas does right what actually matters to a Fallout game: story, canon, atmosphere, and RPG mechanics, things Fallout 3 failed at
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I just took a look at the fallout online beta site, it looks like something I would want to play, I really hope they come to an agreement :(
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INterplay pleaes hold on tight. make sure you don't lose your business over this. once i finish making my game in a few months ( i haven't begun yet, trust me ok)i will need you to publish it. it is a sentimental value or whatever to me. plus my game might just make you and me enough money that we can work together to really knock the socks off everyone else with continuous fallout online content.
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This is fucking intense shit.
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DAMN STRAIGHT
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Whats with all these people telling Interplay to give up on Fallout Online? They have a logical case and I can see where they're coming from. The only issue is that Bethesda doesn't want to let anybody else make profits from a Fallout title released after 2008. If Fallout 3 would have been a monumental failure instead of a success this courtcase wouldn't exist. Bethesda would have waited until it was almost done, then they would have swooped in with some legal BS and taken the MMO for themselves. It all comes down to the money, and Behtesda's too worried about making lots of it than making games.
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Funny, Betehsda have been making a lot more games than Interplay recently. Whats the most recent Interplay release you can name?
Also, about other people making a profit - Did you look at the New Vegas box when you purchased it? There's at least 2 other companies on any given box not owned by Bethesda who hope to make a profit off this. One of them is Obsidian, the other one depends on which version you bought.
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Speaking for me self here, I'm telling them to give up (not outright) because a Fallout MMO made by a dying company has very little chance of being anything more than "That one mmo that got cancelled after a month." .hack//Fragment had a MUCH better chance, but look where that went.
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Bye Interplay. We all knew you were going to die anyway.
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please interplay, just give up fallout
just give it up and make something new. The franchise as you knew it is gone for the time being
write some names on a white board with a dry erase marker, pick the name you like best and build a new video game
preferably without space marines
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Would you give up the rights to Fallout Online when Fallout 1,2, tactics, F3 and F4 have huge fanbases? No, i think not.
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Fallout 4 exists now?!
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Anon, don't act stupid. He meant New Vegas.
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We need real news.
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this is real news people aren't just sitting in their basements making this up and posting it. and if you dont want this news go to Fox news
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He said he wanted real news, not Fox "News".
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Faux news is more like it.
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@ Yuri
BA DUM CHH!!!!!!
