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Would “Vault 76 resident” not be a better looking, more functional, and more appropriate article name? --31.124.46.99 01:16, April 30, 2020 (UTC)
To build off of this discussion, as it's been brought up in Discord a lot, "Resident" is not the best name for the Fallout 76 player character(s), as it's only mentioned in one terminal entry. We even have confirmation from Devann McCarthy, a community manager for the game, that the intended name is "Vault Dwellers" (see here). Obviously that presents a bit of an issue with the Vault Dweller, so I want to prod some ideas as to what would be a good name for the article. A forum might also be a good idea, but I figured I'd bring it up on this talk page first, for posterity. Off the top of my head, my ideas would be "Vault Dweller (Fallout 76)," "Vault Dwellers (Fallout 76)" or "(Vault 76)" for the previous two; as well as "Vault 76 dwellers." AllYourFavorites! (talk) 20:35, October 19, 2020 (UTC)
- If we are going to move away from resident, I like Vault Dweller (Fallout 76) the best. We could keep Vault Dweller from FO1 the same. Plural would definitely not be my choice. -kdarrow
take her for a spin! 20:40, October 19, 2020 (UTC)
- Resident is used by one group of people (V76 security) in one place (V76) compared to Vault Dweller, Dweller, Vaulter, Seven-sixer, Seventy-sixer, etc. which are used far more consistently in far more places, including literally out-of-game marketing for the former two. I get the desire to give every "protagonist" character a distinct title, but if we're to follow the precedent of the Sole Survivor, then the name used in marketing trumps the in-game ones - the SS is similarly referred to by a lot of different names, titles, and nicknames in FO4, but we settled on "Sole Survivor" (which to my knowledge is only used once, if ever, in the game itself) that based on the E3 presentation and marketing starting with Far Harbor (which was probably influenced by us using it as the protagonist's "name", lol). --DirtyBlue929 (talk) 20:53, October 19, 2020 (UTC)
- Resident is the best and only real name for the singular canonical player character. While a community manager's word is of validity, it can also easily be disputed by actual developers, as was the case with discussion on the Creation Club prior to Emil's statement on it, where on CM mentioned it was canon, giving reasoning as to why and how it is supposed to be seen and intended in the wider universe, and the other said it wasn't canon because cross-promotional content existed on it. Although it is a wildly different topic, simply having word from one Community Manager is like asking a moderator on a Bethesda forum what's what in the wider universe. They can give their opinion on the matter, but it's about the same as asking a QA tester on 76 what they think the protagonist's name is. JCB2077 (talk) 20:59, October 19, 2020 (UTC)
- Resident is the strongest name, don't change it anymore. I'd even would want move it to Resident, rocksolid name, in similar character to the other games' main protagonists. Jspoel
21:02, October 19, 2020 (UTC)Jspoel 
21:01, October 19, 2020 (UTC)
- Hate to repeat what I just wrote but: Resident is barely used and only in one specific circumstance by one specific group that never shows up or plays a role in anything. Literally everything afterwards, and all marketing materials, use things other than "Resident." That is the opposite of being the "strongest" name, and like I said it ignores the precedent we ourselves set with Sole Survivor. --DirtyBlue929 (talk) 21:07, October 19, 2020 (UTC)
- I want to point something out: any speculation we make here on the "real name" of the protagonist is immediately defeated by the fact that we now have the official designation. Player speculation can never overcome confirmation from Bethesda proper. Player credentials can never overcome Bethesda credentials. Now that we know the official designation, the question is: do we stick with fan fiction or do we stick with not only the official name, but wiki precedent? I vote for "Vault Dweller" and am willing to help make the changes necessary to use the correct and official name.--Intrepid359 (talk) 21:22, October 19, 2020 (UTC)
- To add my two cents to the topic; it can be argued until the cows come home as to, based upon in game references or lack thereof, the validity of either title. That is a different animal. However, what it boils down to is that we have been told, definitively, by a member of bethesda's staff that the proper name is Vault Dweller. Personal head-cannon, no matter how grounded you think it may be, does not have a place in a fact based wiki and should not be given authority in any decision made in those regards, especially when superseded by developer statements. Furthermore, that is the name that has been used to refer to the player characters each time in either Inside the Vault articles or other official statements from the devs. Not once have they termed us "Residents". This is a topic where personal feelings and opinions need to be set aside and authority must be ceded to Bethesda themselves. It does not matter if she is a community manager or not (which to infer devann is no better than a forum mod is the furthest thing from the truth) she still outranks each and every one of us in terms of authority on the lore of the game. Therefore, it is my opinion that Vault Dweller should be the defined title of the player characters until such a time as a dev who outranks Devann should state otherwise.--NotAlex123 (talk) 03:11, October 20, 2020 (UTC)
- We have "confirmation" from a Bethesda Community Manager. Not an official member of the development team, nor one with actual authority on the matter. It's no different than that of asking a QA tester or forum moderator what their opinion is. They're a member of staff, yes, but interpersonal community interaction is not the same as developer, actual developer, intention. Were we to ask Emil, Jeff, Ferret, whoever, what the title is, sure, that's great. But an answer from a CM is about as shaky as it can be. I concur with JP on this matter. JCB2077 (talk) 04:03, October 20, 2020 (UTC)
- To add my two cents to the topic; it can be argued until the cows come home as to, based upon in game references or lack thereof, the validity of either title. That is a different animal. However, what it boils down to is that we have been told, definitively, by a member of bethesda's staff that the proper name is Vault Dweller. Personal head-cannon, no matter how grounded you think it may be, does not have a place in a fact based wiki and should not be given authority in any decision made in those regards, especially when superseded by developer statements. Furthermore, that is the name that has been used to refer to the player characters each time in either Inside the Vault articles or other official statements from the devs. Not once have they termed us "Residents". This is a topic where personal feelings and opinions need to be set aside and authority must be ceded to Bethesda themselves. It does not matter if she is a community manager or not (which to infer devann is no better than a forum mod is the furthest thing from the truth) she still outranks each and every one of us in terms of authority on the lore of the game. Therefore, it is my opinion that Vault Dweller should be the defined title of the player characters until such a time as a dev who outranks Devann should state otherwise.--NotAlex123 (talk) 03:11, October 20, 2020 (UTC)
- I want to point something out: any speculation we make here on the "real name" of the protagonist is immediately defeated by the fact that we now have the official designation. Player speculation can never overcome confirmation from Bethesda proper. Player credentials can never overcome Bethesda credentials. Now that we know the official designation, the question is: do we stick with fan fiction or do we stick with not only the official name, but wiki precedent? I vote for "Vault Dweller" and am willing to help make the changes necessary to use the correct and official name.--Intrepid359 (talk) 21:22, October 19, 2020 (UTC)
- Hate to repeat what I just wrote but: Resident is barely used and only in one specific circumstance by one specific group that never shows up or plays a role in anything. Literally everything afterwards, and all marketing materials, use things other than "Resident." That is the opposite of being the "strongest" name, and like I said it ignores the precedent we ourselves set with Sole Survivor. --DirtyBlue929 (talk) 21:07, October 19, 2020 (UTC)
- Resident is the strongest name, don't change it anymore. I'd even would want move it to Resident, rocksolid name, in similar character to the other games' main protagonists. Jspoel
- Resident is the best and only real name for the singular canonical player character. While a community manager's word is of validity, it can also easily be disputed by actual developers, as was the case with discussion on the Creation Club prior to Emil's statement on it, where on CM mentioned it was canon, giving reasoning as to why and how it is supposed to be seen and intended in the wider universe, and the other said it wasn't canon because cross-promotional content existed on it. Although it is a wildly different topic, simply having word from one Community Manager is like asking a moderator on a Bethesda forum what's what in the wider universe. They can give their opinion on the matter, but it's about the same as asking a QA tester on 76 what they think the protagonist's name is. JCB2077 (talk) 20:59, October 19, 2020 (UTC)
- Resident is used by one group of people (V76 security) in one place (V76) compared to Vault Dweller, Dweller, Vaulter, Seven-sixer, Seventy-sixer, etc. which are used far more consistently in far more places, including literally out-of-game marketing for the former two. I get the desire to give every "protagonist" character a distinct title, but if we're to follow the precedent of the Sole Survivor, then the name used in marketing trumps the in-game ones - the SS is similarly referred to by a lot of different names, titles, and nicknames in FO4, but we settled on "Sole Survivor" (which to my knowledge is only used once, if ever, in the game itself) that based on the E3 presentation and marketing starting with Far Harbor (which was probably influenced by us using it as the protagonist's "name", lol). --DirtyBlue929 (talk) 20:53, October 19, 2020 (UTC)
- I think we can soundly set aside the argument that Bethesda's official voice for Fallout 76 has no authority to speak on behalf of Bethesda. Not only is it explicitly her job to speak on behalf of Bethesda (including the devs), Bethesda's marketing materials have consistently agreed with her since the launch of Fallout 76. We don't need Todd himself to descend from the heavens to confirm that the same protagonist name that we've been told for 2 years is indeed the name. Again, any speculation we make here as to the "real name" of the protagonist is immediately defeated by the fact that we have official confirmation. We have no more authority to determine the name of the protagonist than we do to determine the title of Fallout 76. If I were to go to the Halo wiki and propose that we change the official name of the Halo protagonist to something unofficial, I'd likely be banned for trolling. I say this in all seriousness: the idea of going with unofficial names for core characters immediately forfeits our credibility and firmly plants us in the realm of fan fiction. --Intrepid359 (talk) 05:54, October 20, 2020 (UTC)
- I would like to submit a new piece of evidence which has come to light. This is the official E3 Reveal article from Bethesda's website.
- I think we can soundly set aside the argument that Bethesda's official voice for Fallout 76 has no authority to speak on behalf of Bethesda. Not only is it explicitly her job to speak on behalf of Bethesda (including the devs), Bethesda's marketing materials have consistently agreed with her since the launch of Fallout 76. We don't need Todd himself to descend from the heavens to confirm that the same protagonist name that we've been told for 2 years is indeed the name. Again, any speculation we make here as to the "real name" of the protagonist is immediately defeated by the fact that we have official confirmation. We have no more authority to determine the name of the protagonist than we do to determine the title of Fallout 76. If I were to go to the Halo wiki and propose that we change the official name of the Halo protagonist to something unofficial, I'd likely be banned for trolling. I say this in all seriousness: the idea of going with unofficial names for core characters immediately forfeits our credibility and firmly plants us in the realm of fan fiction. --Intrepid359 (talk) 05:54, October 20, 2020 (UTC)
- Please note the second paragraph in which we are explicitly referred to as Vault Dwellers, as a proper noun using capital letters. I believe this can and should easily corroborate the official statement made by Devann on this matter.--NotAlex123 (talk) 15:59, October 20, 2020 (UTC)
- Were Devann to have explicit confirmation, or specific naming of which developer she was to speak for, or directly crediting them with evidence or proof, that would be proof enough. However, as she is a Community Manager, she speaks for the community just as she does for not only Bethesda, but herself. As that image stands, it only really stands that Devann personally believes the name of the F76 Protagonist is the Vault Dweller. The fact of the matter is that in-game corroborating evidence showcases the name of the Protagonist to be the Resident, via official Vault-Tec documentation, not speculation on any part of the developers or personal interpretation. In response to the E3 reveal article, Bethesda has consistently utilized Vault Dweller as a proper noun since Fallout 3. By the logic presented in Vault Dwellers, plural, the Lone Wanderer and Sole Survivor also fall into the Vault Dwellers section. Fallout has always utilized capitalized terms or words, regardless of proper or improper use, since the first game. To take an article as evidence of such a matter is like using the Obsidian or Bethesda forum developer responses to discern why Caps are called Caps, or the Service Rifle as a Service Rifle. Or the ever-present use of Pre-War and Post-War versus pre-War and post-War. JCB2077 (talk) 16:10, October 20, 2020 (UTC)
Devann's confirmation of Vault Dweller is the most authoritative source we have on the matter. That trumps all of our speculation. She is fully a Bethesda employee and one of the official people who speak publicly on behalf of Bethesda. She's not some volunteer forum moderator. She has frequent meetings with the development team and anything she doesn't specifically know when asked, she asks the rest of the team. Her answer should therefore be considered authoritative until a more authoritative answer comes along. Saying that we are going to disregard her answer because we know better is frankly arrogant and dishonest. Goalposts can always be moved and someone could easily say 'I won't accept Vault Dweller until the Microsoft Board of Directors says so.' Fallout 76 is a game that is frequently updated and is different than any Fallout game previously released. We have to operate under the idea of progressive revelation. And part of that is that things we 'know' will change as the game changes. Here are just a few examples of Bethesda authoritatively referring to us as Vault Dwellers or Dwellers:
https://bethesda.net/en/article/2G2vLPyPwcMaiGASUwsoqQ/fallout-76-official-reveal-e3-2018
None of those articles ever refer to us as 'Residents'. The only article I could find that even had the word resident was this one and it's in the context of Crater or Foundation residents: https://fallout.bethesda.net/en/article/CM9EdQABP6TqjrB37XlfS/fallout-76-wastelanders-launch-date-and-details
Vault Dweller (Fallout 76) should be used instead of Resident.
-Gilpo1 (talk) 17:07, October 20, 2020 (UTC)
- A CM is, for all intents and purposes in the context of the entirety of the Fallout series, very specifically a volunteer forum moderator. And again, definitive proof exists on the behalf of the naming of the Resident. Simply requesting that we take a Community Manager, a moderator, word as fact may as well open up entirely new grounds of speculation simply based on personal beliefs. And again, Bethesda articles are not indicators of how continual naming of protagonists work. The series is known for its misuse of capitalization and improper proper nouns, simply saying the same thing over and over, about Devann and Bethesda "authoritative article use" is a weak and otherwise flimsy argument compared to, once more, actual Vault 76 terminal entries, with an entry, seen here: Vault 76 terminal entries#Day to Day Duties, denoting us as the Resident. JCB2077 (talk) 17:27, October 20, 2020 (UTC)
- Devann is not a volunteer. She is a paid Bethesda Employee who speaks on behalf of Bethesda. I raise your 3 terminal entries with 66 dialog instances referring to us as Vault Dwellers: https://pastebin.com/FCBxFbtr -Gilpo1 (talk) 17:45, October 20, 2020 (UTC)
- Being paid and speaking for Bethesda are two different things. We could ask any CM their opinion on it, and they'd all have varied answers. Out of the 5 CMs I know, I doubt that there's any real major consensus that would be relevant or useful in the actual matter. And it's not a matter of "raising" anything. It's a matter of what the game distinctly refers to the player character as. The Vault Dweller of 2161, also an incredibly undescriptive term to literally anyone who lived or dwelled in a Vault (Powder Gangers of Vault 19 included), the Chosen One of 2241, the Lone Wanderer (Vault Dweller) of 2277, Courier 6 of 2281, and the Sole Survivor (Vault Dweller) of 2287. Anyone could go through any one of those games to discern just how many times the protagonist is referred to as the protagonist, but the fact of the matter of 76 is that it's just the Resident, always has been, always will, until an actual Bethesda developer actually comments on the matter, not someone, paid or unpaid, who has the authority of someone asking Joshua Sawyer a question on Frog Helms Club or someone talking on the 76/PTS forums. JCB2077 (talk) 18:16, October 20, 2020 (UTC)
- So, in summary, your arguments for leaving it Resident were:
- 1. Devann is a volunteer and not authoritative.
- 2. Press releases and articles written by Bethesda and published on Bethesda.net are not authoritative.
- 3. The 3 terminal entries are the authority.
- 4. Paid employees don't speak for Bethesda.
- 5. Hypothetically asking other community managers would hypothetically give different answers.
- 6. In-game references to the player/protagonist are not valid. (despite your own assertions in point 3)
- 7. A developer has to confirm it. (despite your point 4)
- 8. It's always been that way.
- All of this is completely arbitrary mental hoop jumping and goal post moving that you are engaging in as opposed to rational debate. Bottom line is that the public voice of Bethesda who authoritatively responds to questions and issues daily has said it is Vault Dweller, there are more instances in-game referring to us as Vault Dwellers than anything else, and every single Bethesda press release and Inside the Vault refers to us as Vault Dwellers is more than enough to settle the matter. You arguments to the contrary are strictly opinion. All of this is Bethesda sourced information and that will always trump the opinions of a wiki editor.
- While I could respond to all of that, to clarify the matter, the past multiple hours of delegation have already come to an end thanks to JP's response. As he is a Bureaucrat, he has the final say on any and everything. As such, to quote his words: "Resident is the strongest name, don't change it anymore. I'd even would want move it to Resident, rocksolid name, in similar character to the other games' main protagonists.". Case closed. JCB2077 (talk) 19:26, October 20, 2020 (UTC)
- I find it interesting that you only brought up Jspoel's response after your argument had been dissected and contradicted, as if to avoid responding to those points. Opinions can change (that's why this discussion is still going on), and we want every viewpoint to be clarified so we can have a productive discussion. AllYourFavorites! (talk) 19:53, October 20, 2020 (UTC)
- Also, AFAIK Bureaucrats only have final say on things like rights requests and other wiki administration issues, not literally every single issue or argument that they participate in, and even then they can be disputed. So this is by no means "case closed", it's just you refusing to engage any more. --DirtyBlue929 (talk) 20:03, October 20, 2020 (UTC)
Resident is probably the least credible name we could have come up with. Change it to "Vault Dweller (Fallout 76)". If we do not, I will change the "Sole Survivor" page to be "Nate/Nora". --Scribe-Howard (talk) 18:22, October 20, 2020 (UTC)
- You cannot just change the wiki as you wish. To do so would not only result in an edit war, but a violation of wiki policies. JCB2077 (talk) 18:17, October 20, 2020 (UTC)
First and foremost, we need to be consistent. The existing Bethesda protagonist names were chosen by Bethesda and used in Bethesda's marketing. We have no precedent of ignoring Bethesda's chosen protagonist name and choosing our own. No one needs to defend continuing that practice; it is established precedent. Love it or hate it, "Vault Dweller" is the official protagonist name, both implicitly and explicitly. Anyone wishing to deviate from establish precedent needs to vigorously argue their case. "Resident" is a deviation from precedent, so I think we can all relax.
Second, every game studio in existence has the right to name their game, their protagonist, and their characters. We don't get to decide that Ward is named "Bobby Joe." We don't get to decide that Fallout 76 should be called "Fallout with Friends." It is absurd to me to even think that we get to make that choice. That is fan fiction at worst and speculation at worst. Either way, it's against policy.
Third, deviating from the established precedent sets a new precedent for all other games and all other characters. In what world is it a good idea to open the doors for editor-chosen character names across the entire wiki? --Intrepid359 (talk) 19:23, October 20, 2020 (UTC)
Resident/Vault 76 Dweller Cont.[]
I'd like to start this off by saying that a bureaucrat only has the final say in very specific matters such as rights-requests; this power does not extend to editing disputes. So unfortunately I find myself in the awkward position of having to make it abundantly clear that just because a bureaucrat may or may not agree with you, that does not mean that the discussion is necessarily over.
With that out of the way, if the developers have stated something as a fact, then we have to take that at face-value until later contradicted. That's how we've always handled these matters, and our established rules reflect this as well.
Moving on from the fact of the matter, my opinion is that 76 is a different than anything we've ever had to deal with before, where the protagonist of the game is most likely a NPC (the V76 overseer), with the PCs being nothing more than generic V76 dwellers running around with no points of reference to understand which dwellers have done what, exactly.
Examples:
- Not every dweller could have possibly created the Scorched vaccine
- While groups of V76 dwellers can take on the SQB, we don't know how many did so
- Quite a few of the quests can only be done once realistically
Since we cannot possibly know which dweller, aside from the overseer, has done what, and how it's been split up leading up to the scorchbeast queen and content thereafter, my opinion is that we need to treat the V76 dwellers like any other vault dweller article, and treat them as generic and in the plural sense. 寧靜 
20:05, October 20, 2020 (UTC)