This talk page is only for discussing improvements to the page "Medicine Stick (GRA)."

Symbol on Stock Edit

Hello there, it IS a medicine wheel, NOT a dreamcatcher. Please see here : Thank you

Followers of the Apocalypse? It looks more like a native thing since it's got feathers as well. The name 'Medicine Stick' already sounds tribal. Maybe we'll find out after it's released. --Felix BrehhUser Avatar talk 00:51, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

apparently the indians make a pretty damn fine rifle --Corporal grif 03:54, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

I've heard it is Crazy Horse's 1860 Henry Repeater. I think this should be looked into. -- 15:43, September 27, 2011 (UTC)
No. --an0my(talk) 19:04, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

Seriously guys, it is NOT a symbol from the Followers of the Apocalypse. Clearly it's Native American due to the feathers and beads.

That it is. It's a dream catcher symbolically; I reverted the latest edit because it was a bad link, but if someone can find an appropriate link to illustrate it, that'd be peachy. (checked what it was trying to link to, Medicine Wheel on wiki, and it didn't seem to be appropriate, relating to much larger ground-based structures) ~Anon
Medicine wheels aren't dream catchers. A simple google search shows people making "handhelds" as well. See here, as references state that "a personal medicine wheel can be made using fetishes such as crystals, arrowheads, seashells, feathers, animal fur/bones, and so on". This would make the most sense anyway considering it's called a "medicine stick". 11:36, October 21, 2011 (UTC)
Doesn't give you the right to revert it to an inappropriate link, as the wiki medicine wheel page shows NOTHING about personal/handheld varieties, as well as details it as a geographical phenomenon. The one illustrated on the Medicine Stick not only follows the dream catcher's willow loop format for the outer framework (that being a circle of willow wrapped round with leather cording/strips) but the feathers hanging from it as well. The only thing that differs froma traditional dream cather is the inner portion, which instead of being a woven net or web is made resembling the medicine wheel structure. Instead of being an ass in your comment as to why you're undoing the revision edit and not linking appropriately next time, actually link to some relevant information. ~Anon

Acronyms Edit

Please avoid acronyms whose long versions aren't obvious. I had to google to see what an ADS is. The long version (Aim Down Sight) doesn't work very well, because it's a verb being used as a noun.

(off topic) A Brush Gun with bigger mag and I don't have to download a mod to remove the obnoxious rear sight? Yes please. --Rooker75 09:59, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

A bit pricey. Edit

So far I like this weapon. The Brush gun was my go to weapon before so this is an obvious improvement. The rear site is much better, the extra 2 ammo capacity is nice as well, but its damage over the regular Brush Gun is very little and at over 21,000 caps it’s a little on the pricey side.ReapTheChaos 16:28, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

WHY??? Edit

Why Couldn't Obsidian call the gun "Boom-Stick" instead of "Medicine-Stick," couldn't they have alluded to Bruce Cambell at all?

It looks Native which is a nice touch. Being part Native American I can see the humor in the name. --Felix BrehhUser Avatar talk 18:22, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

Boom-stick would have ot be a shotgun anyways so maybe you should wonder why they didn't add an unsawed of shotgun instead.

Well there is the Big Boomer. Not necessarily alluding to Bruce Campbell Evil Dead Army of Darkness but its a shot gun with Boom in its name. --Mrnotwen 23:17, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Meh Damage Edit

78/78? Meh, I guess it's alright considering the other features. --an0my(talk) 23:11, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

Not really. Someone had the wrong info in there earlier (from their Pip-Boy I think). It does 78 normal / 78 crit vs 75 / 75. DPS is a bit higher because of the larger capacity.
FYI, here is a pic of the iron sights. Effing love it compared to the horrible default: [1] --Rooker75 20:32, September 27, 2011 (UTC)
Mind if I upload that pic on here so people see the difference? :3 --Felix BrehhUser Avatar talk 20:42, September 27, 2011 (UTC)
Nah, go ahead. --Rooker75 23:21, September 27, 2011 (UTC)
Oh nice I like the iron sights. --an0my(talk) 23:05, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

Anybody willing to share what the DPS is and the reload time? We need to fill in all the info. --Felix BrehhUser Avatar talk 21:49, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

Not so 'meh' now. Edit

119 with most perks, sounds good. --Felix BrehhUser Avatar talk 23:34, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

I'm getting 132 per shot with the Cowboy Perk and my Semi Wad Cutter rounds. -- Implodinggoat

D:< Edit

Why can't we have pictures on the Gallery? The pictures really help the people who don't know what the sights look like. --Felix BrehhUser Avatar talk 15:11, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

Wow, just wowEdit

I did some rough calculations and figured that this gun (with cowboy and lord death) does enough bare damage with hollow point rounds to off set the negative aspect of them. I think the enemy would have to have a DT of about 25-28 for hollow points to do less damage than a normal bullet. And since nobody but BOS would have that, this weapon just got a whole lot sweeter.unknown

With all my perks (Cowboy, Bloody Mess, Lord Death) I'm getting...

    110 damage with standard rounds.
    192 damage with hollow points with 3X to DT, and...
    132 damage with SWC rounds and a -6 to DT.

So for me Hollow Points beat out regular ammo on any enemy with DT under 27.3 and Hollow Points even beat out SWC rounds on any enemy with a DT under 14 and they deteriorate the weapon a third as fast as SWC rounds to boot. Implodinggoat

So you're telling me, that hollow points will be more effective on enemies that normally need armor piercing rounds like legion assassins? --Felix BrehhUser Avatar talk 04:21, September 30, 2011 (UTC)

Yep, Hollow Points do 82 more damage than standard rounds and to offset that difference an enemy would need a DT of 27.3 (27.3 X 3 = 82) and the DT for most high level Legion Assassins is only 15 DT and even if they come at you wearing Centurion armor they still aren't going to break 25 DT. Implodinggoat

You're doing the math wrong. It's actually better than that. For a DT of 27.3, the Medicine Stick would deal 110 damage with HP bullets, correct, but the Medicine Stick with normal bullets would be doing 110-27.3 damage, or 82.7 damage. The actual break-even point is at DT 41, where the Medicine Stick would do ~69 damage with HP or regular rounds. Kamov

Let's shoot a deathclaw and see what happens, because using .45-70 Govt. rounds on anything smaller or with less armor is overkill in my opinion. A normal round does 78 damage and is subtracted by 15 DT to get 63 damage. A hollow point does 78x1.75=136 damage and is subtracted by 15x3=45 damage to get 91 damage. The SWC deals 78x1.2=93 damage and is subtracted by 15-6=9 DT to get 84 damage, before any perks and guns skill modifiers. I'd still advocate using SWC rounds because standard .45-70 Govt. rounds are easier to come by.--Lolzarz (talk) 14:27, July 26, 2014 (UTC)

Only the enemy DT subtraction effects of bullets are taken into account when the game is deciding whether your bullet is higher than enemy DT. Because of this, 15% more damage is not the same as 15 DT negation against an enemy with a high DT. Refer to the combat page for New Vegas to see how damage is calculated. Once you try to use HP against enemy with high enough DT, damage that's not critical/normal base damage is useless. Well, not technically useless, just 1/5th as useful, lol. Dark wizzie (talk) 00:50, January 12, 2016 (UTC)

The Damage Formula says that the damage reduction of the x3 DT is applied before the x1.75 damage multiplier, which means that Hollow Points on the Medicine Stick are not as powerful as implied at the beginning of this topic. The general formula for determining at what point of DT do Hollow Point do the same damage as regular ammo is: 1.75x(GunDamage - 3xTargetDT) = GunDamage - TargetDT . Doing the math shows that Hollow Points become more effective when the target's DT is less than Gundamage/5.67 . For the base Medicine Stick, this would be 13.76 DT. For the example at the start of the topic, it would be 19.4 DT.

I just want to say Edit

I love this gun, omg, it is the BEST weapon I could ever hope for! I'm so glad I contributed to this page with a large amount of info ♥ --Felix BrehhUser Avatar talk 06:35, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

Raul and this gunEdit

Anyone tested if Raul's offensive perk increases the fire rate of this weapon? It should as it should work on all Cowboy weapons, but I am unsure if it copies the Cowboy weapons list or has it's own separate one. SkyHiRider 17:10, October 10, 2011 (UTC)

Does it have a VATS glitch or not?Edit

Moved from notes section for further discussion:

  • The Medicine Stick does not seem to have many of the glitches the standard brush gun is known for, such as firing several rounds in V.A.T.S. mode and dealing zero damage. Although it may still glitch when firing at nightstalkers and cyberdogs, where none of the rounds cause damage even with a Guns skill of 100.
  • pcIcon pc While it does seem to perform marginally better than the Brush gun, the same V.A.T.S. bugs associated with that weapon do manifest. (e.g. Firing four back-to-back, non-queued rounds, each at 95% hit-chance, consistently resulted in four misses. The probability of missing four consecutive rounds at 95% is 1/160,000).--Gothemasticator 15:33, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

I used Steady and got 95% chance to hit Deadclaw, used HP bulets and aimed for Head, constantly miss, on max V.A.T.S. range on several attacks. Animation show bulet time but it never hit target or it just do no demage, not sure what is it. I do remember i got hit one time but rest whas terible. Is it max V.A.T.S. range that making problem, i look on it, but is bit hard to do it whit Deathclaws. its just confusing, but my other wapons used after got no problems to kill target in same conditions.

strength req missing Edit

I don't see the strength req 6, that the brush gun has listed on Medicine stick.-- 03:08, November 2, 2011 (UTC)devinpatterson

Iron Cazadores Edit

Has anyone had problems killing cazadores with the Medicine Stick? I've got the Living Anatomy perk, and I often hit cazadores in VATS with the Medicine Stick with a single shot that should kill them, and their displayed HP drops into the negatives, but when I exit VATS again, they're at full health again, and it takes a second shot to actually kill them. This became a serious issue in the paths north of Red Rock Canyon, and I was forced to switch weapons to something less suited for the situation.

Something similar happens to me when I try to kill them with explosives. UserGreatMaraMessage 01:07, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

Re: discussion of the symbol on the stock Edit

It's a stylized Medicine Wheel, sometimes Anglicized as "sacred hoop." It's not a dreamcatcher.

Edit: Sorry, I realized I added this without any supporting information. Here's a very nice explanation of the wheel:

If you need more, please say so and I'll find more. :)

Geekminxen 21:22, April 9, 2012 (UTC)geekminxen

Locked too soon Edit

Probably the completely wrong place to ask this, but: can we get this topic unlocked again? It still needs work. For example, the comment above re: Dreamcatcher on the stock.

Kinghfb 22:33, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

That discussion was probably why the page was protected in the first place. What do you wish to add? The Gunny 380px-USMC-E7 svg 23:35, May 17, 2012 (UTC)
Well it didn't seem like there were many recent edits at all. I planned on cleaning up the wording, etc, as I like to do. I've no new information to contribute, I just wanted to make the existing information clearer and more concise. Kinghfb 00:00, May 18, 2012 (UTC)

Possible trivia relating to name Edit

After doing some research the other day for a history paper, I came across something about President Teddy Roosevelt, he had a lever-action rifle chambered in a similar cartridge that he referred to as his "Lion Medicine". Could this possibly be a reason why this rifle got its name as well as the tribal patterns and medicine stick ideas? Just a though 15:08, January 2, 2013 (UTC)Recon42

To the best of my knowledge, Roosevelt never owned a 1886 Winchester, or Marlin 1895, that this weapon is loosely modeled after. He certainly had shot them, being a huge fan of lever guns, Winchesters specifically, but the weapons that I'm aware of him actually owning are 1873s in .32-30, 1894s in .30-30 and 1895s in .30-03 and .405 Winchester. None of the weapons or the rounds that were closely associated with TR were the 1886 or the .45-70. The Gunny  380px-USMC-E7 svg 20:38, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

I found this which is what made me think about it "Winchester’s advertising campaigns during the first decade of the twentieth century took full advantage of Theodore Roosevelt’s frequent praise of the .405 Winchester, as well as the Winchester 1895 which chambered it. Roosevelt famously referred to this rifle as his “’medicine gun’ for lions.” This quote comes from Roosevelt’s account of a lion hunt in the seventh chapter of his book African Game Trails:

   But as we stood, one of the porters behind called out “Simba”; and we caught a glimpse of a big lioness galloping down beside the trees, just beyond the donga…Tarlton took his big double-barrel and advised me to take mine, as the sun had just set and it was likely to be close work; but I shook my head, for the Winchester 405 is, at least for me personally, the “medicine gun” for lions.

Although it is often said that Roosevelt called the .405 M1895 his “big medicine,” this phrase is never used in African Game Trails, and is possibly the erroneous combination of his “medicine gun” quote with his “big stick” speech of 1901."

From wikipedia and a few other sources 11:35, January 21, 2013 (UTC)Recon42