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Talk:Great War

From The Vault

Aptyp once asked Tim Cain about this, and Timmy said planes. So there you are. Spazmo 21:16, 8 May 2005 (CEST)

But what about "spears of nuclear fire rained from the sky" from the FO2 intro? I'd say that it was mostly planes, but some rockets were also used... Ausir 23:24, 8 May 2005 (CEST)

FO2 is not canon. Also, Tim said something along the lines of "uhh I dunno, I'd say planes". --161.88.255.139 17:27, 29 Jul 2005 (CEST)

  • Realize this is an old post I'm replying to but uhh.. source for FO2 being non-canon?

Contents

[edit] It was Missiles

People seriously! You are getting into arguments about nukes. Black isle and bethesda aren't telling us and likely they used both for maxiumum damage. and the thing is is that they're dead we're alive and have to live through their f****** communism hating mistake

It is my esteemed opinion that "total nuclear annihilation" can not be achieved in a mere "two hours" with just planes. I don't see both China and the United States being capable of launching potentially hundreds of aircraft at once, potentially within minutes of each other (If the planes weren't launched within minutes of each other, how would China and the US wipe each other out?), flying over every city of each nation and successfully dropping nuclear weapons without being intercepted or shot down. It just seems a bit silly (after all, wouldn't they meet somewhere over the ocean and have a dog fight?). The other point is, we're talking about the WHOLE WORLD here, not just China and the US. "In two brief hours most of the planet was reduced to cinders.".

While it might be nice to think it can happen that way, it is my belief that Fallout was structured around a modern-era "ICBM Battle". Fallout is a mix of both 50's era cold war style setting with modern technology and modern thoughts. In some cases it's what people in the 50's thought the future would be like but in others it borrows thoughts from the modern era, such as a war with China - as opposed to the classic 50's thinking of Russia. The German development of the V2 series of rockets combined with the nuclear weapon would've been a devastating arsenal.

There's also this: http://www.duckandcover.cx/gallery/albums/Fallout_Bonus_Art/History2_Gray.gif

I *believe* that was going to be the original cover for the Fallout box (see the screen shots which are the same as some which were used on the box). I believe it's now only found in the Fallout root directory if you undat master.dat. As you'll note, it contains a number of facts which have been deemed canon. I see no reason to discount the sentence "In the early morning of Saturday, October 23, 2077 the sky was filled with nuclear missiles".

As has been said, there is much more evidence present both in game and out that indicates it was missiles rather than aircraft - or at least that missiles where what the developers had in mind for the most part.

~DarkUnderlord

Well, both theories have advocates:

  • Missile: a MIRV was probably aimed at Springvale but this particular warhead didn't go off for some reason.
  • Bomb: a bomber was on route to D.C. when it crashed, the bomb being the payload.

Since there are evidence that the Fallout timeline had intercontinental missiles, it is impossible the brass wouldn't see the advantages of that as a warhead delivery method.--Amitakartok 20:39, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Reasons why it can't be planes

When nuclear bombs are droped there is a EMP released which disables all electric equipment. there was a black out in Hawaii which was more than likely because the it would travel across the pacific oceans It is easier to fire lots of missiles than it is to lunch lots of planes at exactly the same time. --Goodyme 18:05, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[goodyme]

Look up history kid. Especially the Nagasaki and Hiroshima bombings as well as B-52 and Cold War. That Furry Bastard 00:40, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
And look up nukes' technical details and/or nuclear physics too. A nuke's EMP gets stronger with altitude. So, blow a nuke 1-2 km above D.C. and hello, Capital Wasteland. Blow the nuke approx. 400-500 km high over Kansas and bye-bye North America's technology (even though it's way too high to cause physical damage). In a nutshell, EMP has three components: E1 is the most dangerous and is caused by gamma radiation creating a vetrical electron stream aimed towards the surface and moving at RELATIVISTIC speeds (meaning they have so much kinetic energy that atmosphere won't stop them); E2 is the weakest due to it's similarity to lightning; E3 is caused by the nuke interacting with the Earth's residual magnetic field similarly to a solar flare, causing geomagnetically induced current that can damage long conductors, ie. power lines. Plus, vacuum tubes used everywhere in the Fallout timeline are nearly immune to EMP. Why do you think real-life Soviet avionics were built from these?--Amitakartok 20:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

There seem to be something contradictory: When you take a look at the nuke in Megaton, you'll notice it's a copy of the bombs dropped in Japan: A typical nuclear bomb, incapable of long-distance flights. However, when taking a look at the various nukes found in the craters around Washington DC, you'll notice it's actually a missile, and not a bomb. So this is something very odd.

There doesn't need to be a contradiction here. We can simply assume that both bombs that were dropped by planes, as well as missiles were used in the Great War. Ausir 20:18, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
Or the missiles were launched from bombers to reduce chances of interception (bomber comes in, you send fighters; the bomber launches a missile at the last moment, but it is too close to be intercepted by anti-missile systems).--Amitakartok 20:42, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Series of Wars

It says the resource wars were followed by the great war, but it was followed by the Cola Wars. Somebody should look into that. :)

[edit] Fallout 3's oddity.

I think DarkUnderlord up there is clearly right, it makes the most sense, and with the release of Fallout 3 is backed-up (with what appears to be) by the presence of ICBM silos in some of the millitary bases. BUT, there is one issue with all of this, and thats the nuke at megaton, which is clearly a bomb and not a missle. Its hard to imagine a Chinese bomber flying all the way to the US WHILST the country is being lit-up with missles, so maybe its actually an American device?

Well, it IS identical to the ones in Fort Constantine.

Nuclear bombs probably wouldn't look all that different after 200 years of rusting. Especially since the Russians made their bombs based off of ours(so they would look similar), and they basically gave that technology to the Chinese. Thus, they wouldn't look much different from one another. ````MainMeister

Correction: Russia stole the nuke design from the US, but refused to give it to their "Chinese comrades". Mao got pissed and left the Soviets high and dry, then built one on their own. At least this is what happened in our universe.--Amitakartok 17:56, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Actually, I think Wikipedia says that the thing with Mao started around 1966, so that puts it after Divergence. It could of played out differently. --TheFrogger 21:04, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] It was missles AND planes!

I actually think that both planes and missles were used in The Great War.

Due to evidence(Namely, the bomb in Megaton)it appears that the first stikes of the war were made with planes droping nuclear bombs. However, its very likely that counterstrikes(And later, possibly counter-counterstrikes) were done with missles, since, during the midst of a nuclear war, if you didnt have planes already in position to drop nuclear bombs, you wouldnt be able to reach a target via planes quick enough. Thus, missles were used.


--Clon3Troop3r 22:31, 20 March 2009 (UTC)Clon3Troop3r


Evidence: Bomb: Bomb in Megaton (as previously stated), and mini-nukes are bombs, not missiles/rockets. Missile: Silo at Fort Bannister (Most likely housed a nuke), as well as a mostly intact missile in a crater near Our Lady of Hope Hospital (Someone confirm this please, if wrong, I am thinking it is near Vault-Tec HQ).

We must also take into account that the Fallout World is what people believed in the 50s. My point, in Fahrenheit 451, planes moved very, VERY fast. In the 50s, it was believed that the jet plane could reach enormous speeds. Perhaps in the Fallout timestream, this did occur. Then it would be easy to suggest that bombs were used. ````MainMeister

If the planes were fast enough to travel across continents in a few minutes, then yes, bombs were perhaps used, however missles still had to be used. Not every plane armed with a nuke would have made it to its designated target(Some would be shot down by anti-air or enemy fighters) Another interesting theory is that not all of the planes armed with nukes were bombers. There might have been fighters armed with smaller nuclear missles. But still, not every fighter would have made it to its target, resulting in the use of inter-continental missles and such.

--Clon3Troop3r 23:26, 20 March 2009 (UTC)Clon3Troop3r

I would not be surprised at all if fighters were equipped with mininukes. Also, of course planes were shot down, that's how the nuke at Megaton got there. ````MainMeister

[edit] You're all not familiar with your history are you?

During the Cold War, America had bombers constantly flying around the Soviet Union. Each had their own directives for bombing parts of the USSR should America be attacked. Is it hard to believe we were doing the same thing in China, especially as we had just annexed Canada and they had invaded Alaska? I find it entirely believable that they were.

Haven't any of you seen Dr. Strangelove? Dirk Gently 15:52, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, it might have been originally intended for Fallout 1 that the bombers were the only way the bombs were dropped, but both [[Fallout 2] and Fallout 3 include references to ICBMs, so it's now canon. Probably both were used. Ausir 15:56, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] No Answer

Good topic but you have to remember that there is no correct answer because Bethesda mixed a little of the bomb and missle theory. It be more likely and realistic if it was the missle theory but since gaming industries can make things fuzzie you never know. Anyways we shouldnt worry too much about this issue.

There is a correct answer, there is a nuclear bomb in the LA Vault in Fallout 1 and there is the Shi in Fallout 2 that are the descendants of the crew of the Chinese Shi-huang-ti ballistic missile submarine.

[edit] Unstable AIs?

When asked, the AI of the computer in the BOS base in San Fransisco in FO2 (ACE) says that the mental issues AI's tended to develop (the SF-BOS AI itself feels lonely) might have been one of the reasons for the annihilation in the great war. Should this be included in the article?

ACE Quote:

{208}{}{A true artificial intelligence is possible. A few such systems were completed for military purposes. The project was discontinued.}

{209}{}{Why?}

{210}{}{The suicide rate among true artificial intelligence machines was extremely high. When given full sensory capability the machines became depressed over their inability to go out into the world and experience it. When deprived of full sensory input the machines began to develop severe mental disorders similar to those among humans who are forced to endure sensory deprivation. The few machines that survived these difficulties became incredibly bored and began to create situations in the outside world for their amusement. It is theorized by some that this was the cause of the war that nearly destroyed mankind.}

- limaxophobiac (new here)

[edit] Grammar not formal?

Suggesting general grammar clean-up on this page, writing is often prose and should be more formal.

Happy to do it. --Verygoodyear 18:23, 11 March 2009 (UTC) Sam Jordan

Why? This is not Wikipedia, this is a fan-run encyclopaedia. That Furry Bastard 21:19, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree with That Furry Bastard this is a fan run encyclopedia and everyone can understand what is being said and this is a talk page not an article.

As long as the article is readable, it is ok. - Redmess 23:00, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Anybody else?

Did the other countries get hit or not? HuangLee 18:47, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, nukes were shot everywhere. Killa11 00:25, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

This is a bit confusing. The US were fighting China while Europe were fighting the Middle East. It would've resulted in two nuclear exchanges between these contestants. How did it turned all of a sudden into a classic free-for-all scenario? I mean, why would everyone attack everyone else? They thought "f*** it, if we won't survive, no one else will" and threw M.A.D. right out of the window?--Amitakartok 20:08, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm sure with all of the nukes flying around, governments automatically assumed that their enemies were responsible, or would take advantage of the holocaust to launch their own nukes. Therefore, the only sensible thing to do would be to launch your own arsenal and hope you hurt them more than they hurt you; and even if your enemies had done nothing, then what would you lose by destroying them anyway, they are your enemies right? Also, even if the U.S., China, Europe, and the Middle East were the only ones to fire nukes, a nuclear winter would still be a certainty with all of the fallout scattered into the atmosphere. It wouldn't be hard to assume that any country that wasn't nuked would eventually devolve into lawlessness and barbarism, either through civil panic or wars with other survivors over the scraps the superpower nations left behind. You don't need to irradiate every square inch of the world to destroy civilization, it's all dominoes. 74.215.114.200 20:23, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

In usual wars, nuclear war begins when someone wants someone to surrender or if everything was hopeless. I'm sure everyone was buying the nukes from people like Russia, they used the nukes as warnings and if the opponent didn't surrender well everyone probably started nuking each other. Stuff like this is possible, it's just not really looked in, in the Fallout universe. We may never know how everyone went crazy like this.... Insane Survivor 20:11, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I think someone was just pissed Im Watching You,bitch.<sup>([[User talk:Werewolfhell|Leave A Message!]])</sup> 19:19, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] well

i believe that it is set in the future so planes could move very fast and Icbms and nukes could be improved

[edit] 2 Hours DOES NOT = Total Destruction

Frankly, it would most likely be impossibles for the amount of destruction to have happened in 2 hours without intercontinental missiles the planes would be ant-aircrafted right down. The p 30 minute cross-country flight would take an plane traveling 4000 MPH. That would be probably be the speed Chinese bombers would need to bomb from West to East coast. NOT HAPPENING! However it is a game and is based on a 1950's world view so discrepancies can easily happen. Also, without the development of the silicon chip a nuclear warhead on a missile would be much harder to make.

Yes, it is a game. That's called artistic license.

[edit] It was War and Dick Richardson

War Pronunciation: 

   \ˈwȯr\

Function: 

   noun

1 a (1): a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations (2): a period of such armed conflict (3): state of war b: the art or science of warfare c (1)obsolete : weapons and equipment for war (2)archaic : soldiers armed and equipped for war2 a: a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonism b: a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end <a class war> <a war against disease> c: variance, odds 3

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/war

If I'm not mistaken, the launching of devastating nuclear weapons at other countries would probably be considered a state of open and declared armed hostile conflict or a state of hostility, conflict or antagonism.

Also, Dick Richardson could be covering up his own ass, so I don't think we should say "implied" or any other definitive adjective. It should just be noted that Dick Richardson "claimed" that the Chinese fired first-nice and neutral.

[edit] The Great War

IT WAS SKYNET.... lol i guess that robobrain is dead :( 

u can see a american intercontintal missile in DC (anywhere in the washington district and in the museum near the capitol placa)

and in Megaton the "fatman" a device fired by planes but its very odd because the same devices are in a armory building in the wasteland so every nuke is from the usa :O they bombed therselfs to start a big experiment (Vault,FEV...)

I CHANGE MY MIND IT WAS VAULT TEC!!!!! they startet the war!!!!

i hope well get some more infos in the next Fallout games ;D and maybe in Motership Zeta i hope :D

-David-

[edit] Mothership Zeta

Could it have been the aliens who started the Great War? Alien Captive Recorded Log 17 shows the aliens stealing ICBM launch codes from an American military officer. 200610101010 15:00, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I think that was cut. The actual recording, if listened to, is an Alien chattering away, no human voice. It might be a bug, but still. Nitty 15:02, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

That would be the STUPIDEST plot twist ever. The entire point of the Fallout series is the survival of humanity after their own stupidity wiped them out.--Doop. 03:59, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
I'll have to agree with that, as well. The whole "the aliens did it!" theory just trivializes the whole point of the series.--Chill02 07:19, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Why kill us all with nukes when they are making such preety pets from us? - RASIC 07:43, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Aliens and the great war

Your right although none of us know who started the war it so as hell not the aliens.

[edit] E.T. Doesn't Like Nukes

The idea of Aliens starting the Great War may not be as implausable as it sounds. During the Cold War there have been several reports of UFOs flying around our missile bases. In one case, a UFO was seen flying around a rocket before it exploded and another was a time when an ATLAS missile suddenly armed itself why a UFO was spotted nearby. When the UFO left, the everything went back to normal. I remember this from UFO Files on the History Channel.

Since Fallout is based on the 1950s, it is possible that Aliens may have had something to do with this. While it is a pretty far leap of the imagination does anybody remmeber the original The Day The Earth Stood Still? In it Klatu comes down to convince humans that their work on nuclear weapons should be stopped so we don't blow up everything. Also UFO activity really became hot right after the first atomic explosions. coincidence or something more?

While the Great War was most likely started by us, what if it wasn't and the Aliens caused something to gain from it? My only guess is that they wouldn't feel threatened by our liberal use of nuclear weapons. Klatu also stated that it wouldn't be long before humans made the jump to nuclear powered rockets and then they get really nervous so maybe the Aliens decided to ensure that we would get there.

This is all very specualitve and I don't think Bethesda thought this way, but if you're keeping up with the times of the 1950s this is possible.KnightNapier 15:18, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

It's not that it is farfetched, it's that the entire theme of the series is humanity picking up the pieces of their own devestation. If the aliens did it or had a hand in it, it would kind of be as though the entire point of the series was being pissed on. 98.198.83.12 01:10, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
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