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V:W Column UsefulnessEdit

  • Actually I don't think W:V columns belong here. There should be a specific page for all items in the game as to what is worth looting. The problem with using weapons, is their varying condition, and also I can't think of any vendor in the game, (my games at least), who could afford to buy a mini gun in 100% condition, unless you have very low barter skills. Maybe if you invested heavily in the trade caravans that might happen, but so far, on average I get about 500 caps per regular trader. Once all you consider is the weapons cap value, it becomes the same as a carton of cigarettes. Since you are not considering it's attributes as a weapon, but as a saleable item, therefore that information probably shouldn't be on this page.
    • I think it's safe to say that V:W is more useful than just the VALUE, but I see your point and am myself fuzzy on the need for any economic information on this page. I won't object if someone suggests nixing all value-related info from this page, but I also won't do it myself as I'm pretty sure there would be objections from other players who value having that information here. Servius 19:34, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Well, the cap value isn't much use either, since we aren't primarily interested in that, just how much damage the weapon can do. I'm surprised people can't work out that carrying an assault rifle worth 100 caps is less cost effective than carrying around 2 cartons of cigarettes. That's why I suggested a separate page for the cap value of all items, (of course chems, pre-war money and ammo would win since they are weightless). Adding too many columns just clutters it up. Selling weapons isn't an efficient way to make money in this game. It can come into it's own later on when you have some repair skills, but chances are by that time you have enough caps anyway, (and what is there to spend it on anyway?). If you have gone the gun route, your probably not that interested in bartering. - Don't mind me, I am just a bit bored. I don't need a chart to tell me which gun works best for me in the game. I've never found money, weapons, ammo or rads much of a problem beyond the first few xp levels, (even on the hardest level), and they go by pretty quickly.
I agree. The condition of weapons vary too greatly for the V:W column to be of any use. If several weapons have are in very similar condition then which are more worthwhile hanging onto can be determined from the list, however, actual value and weight of the items are given in the game anyway, and unless you're a complete dunce, some simple, approximate arithmetic will suffice as there aren't any weapons I can think of that don't have a simple weight, such as 8 or 30, and 18 can be rounded off to 20. And lets not forget that zero-value broken weapons, or other weapons of very low condition can be very valuable when used to repair.

I'm not suggesting that we bring back the "Value" column but I don't think V:W is of enough use to bother with.

dude your right.
It's especially unhelpful because the column is currently unexplained anywhere on the page! CHA1N5 17:15 CST, 29 January 2009
The biggest reason V:W is unhelpful is because weapons (regardless of condition) are already the best value to weight ratio of any item type, and people know it after just a few hours of gameplay. Ash Nuke AshRandom (Talk) 00:03, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm speaking on behalf of users of the page: without a definition for the column it conveys zero information, rather than the marginally useful information you describe. CHA1N5 15:19 CST, 1 February 2009
yeah I came to this discussion page looking for info about the meaning of the V:W column. Indeed it sucks that it isn't explained anywhere on the page. I don't mind having that extra piece of information (the value of the weapon? Oh right, that's the Value-to-Weight ratio lol). I suggest to scrap the V:W column and replace it by a V column. As the WG column is besides it, no need for a redundant V:W column once the V column is in place. Quintal 78.114.174.21 17:34, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

fVATSCriticalChanceBonusEdit

Formula page says vats default is +15% after the fact (outside of the parenthesis). Now is that referring to default weapon bonus or is that a default character bonus? Ash Nuke AshRandom (Talk) 03:41, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

It's a flat 15% bonus added near the end of the equation. I didn't include that (and noted as much in the definition) because some people don't use VATS. The equation I used is a 'worst case scenario' that doesn't include perks, VATS, or a luck over 5. If people want to figure out their exact crit chance based on their own stats, they can check out the GECK wiki, find the equation, and do the math themselves.  :-) There are just too many different factors to make a column for each possibility. Servius 13:54, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
Don't worry so much Servius, I'm not thinking of changing this page, I just wanted verification. Ash Nuke AshRandom (Talk) 15:59, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

GECK DPS Calculation ErrorsEdit

Okay, well, your comments prove to me that my experience isn't anomalous, I'm clearly not the only one getting rapid fire out of the plasma rifle. Tell me, in about how many seconds can you unload all 12 shots? Ash Nuke AshRandom (Talk) 17:08, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
I find that fire rate for energy weapons can vary quite a bit; they have a bit of a "sticky" trigger. Most of the time, the plasma rifle will dole it out quickly, while other times, it can pause quite a bit between shots. The GECK says it can do four shots per second. Also, the "semi-automatic fire delay max" for it is 2. In comparison, it's 1 on the 10mm pistol. I think the delay min and delay max are the factors in the "sticky trigger" phenomenon. --MadCat221 00:21, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
What's the fastest you've ever unloaded 12 rnds? I manage it in 3sec just about every time. My suspicion is that the GECK's DPS for everything other than fully automatic weapons, is, quite frankly, utterly worthless. If it can't correctly factor in the animation delay, then it isn't calculating honest numbers. Ash Nuke AshRandom (Talk) 00:28, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Just did a test: I could indeed belt off four rounds per second. After eight shots, the trigger got "sticky" because of the trigger delay max dealie, and then the remaining four shots went off in a second's time. I've noticed this "sticky trigger" thing on other energy weapons, most notably the laser pistol.
Excellent, some verification. Which system are you on again? Ash Nuke AshRandom (Talk) 00:49, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
PC, maxed settings. --MadCat221 01:14, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Well, that clinches it for me. Same effects on PC and Xbox360. We can't trust GECK DPS for anything aside from fully automatic weapons. As I've suspected since the beginning, the GECK just plain fails to calculate DPS correctly for a number of semi-automatic weapons. We either need to pull the base ROF out and use that to create DPS, or just abandon the column entirely. I'm going to move this discussion to the weapons page and annoy Servius with it. Ash Nuke AshRandom (Talk) 01:21, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
I think that, for semi-auto weapons, we put "shots per second", and then the max semi-auto fire delay. 1.0 would be normal, anything higher would be "sticky" or something along that line. There is a shots/sec calculator in the weapon object window as well, in the second tab section. --MadCat221 02:56, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm confused as to how we can get an exact DPS out of it, if the initial so many shots are at full ROF and then there's a weird delay, and back into the full ROF again how the hell do we average that out? Take the plasma rifle, it sure as hell isn't getting 0.94 ROF as we're listing it now, and its not really getting 4.0 ROF either because of the weird delay factor.... Ash Nuke AshRandom (Talk) 03:01, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

And annoy me you have. Grrr... I'm starting to feel as grumpy has Harold. Guys, the DPS appears to be a very complicated equation. For example, it takes things like clip size magazine capacity and reload animation time into account. My bet is you two weren't considering that. If you can find the GECK's DPS calculation somewhere and can prove that it's got some kind of fatal flaw, then maybe we can take the DPS and MDPS columns out. But for now, it's the best thing we have that is calculated in a consistent way for every weapon in the game. Servius 02:51, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

The DPS has to be considered garbage at this point no matter what other crap they're taking into account, its just plain bullshit, the plasma rifle reloads super-fast, and its ROF is super-fast... how the hell is it doing so little DPS? There's no way in hell any amount of additional factors could reliably add up to less than 1 shot a second, the damn Blackhawk takes forever to reload, only has 6 shots and is listed as doing more than twice as much DPS, which CAN'T be the case... it just can't, the plasma does nearly the same damage and has a larger clipsize magazine capacity... Ash Nuke AshRandom (Talk) 03:08, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
A3-21's Plasma Rifle does the same DPS as the XAR and Wanda, which makes sense. It does more DPS than the sniper rifle and just under the Minigun. The thing that seems off are the scoped .44s. As I said, if you can prove that the DPS calc is broken somehow, then we can reassess whether we want to keep using it. You haven't done that yet. Servius 04:04, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
If we're going to consider keeping the DPS column, we need to scrap what the GECK says on DPS, and just use the ROF to get DPS. It might not be perfect but at least it'll be consistently wrong, which oddly enough would make it a more reliable number than the GECK's calculated DPS which has proven to be inconsistently wrong..... Example: 4x45=180DPS for plasma (currently 42), 4x50=200 for A3-21 (currently 47).... Its off by so damn much (425%) it's laughable, you'd need a hematoma to miss how dishonest the GECK's numbers are. Ash Nuke AshRandom (Talk) 04:11, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Ash, you seem very passionate about this. Instead of posting tirades here about how messed up you think the GECK's data is, you should instead prove your hypothesis. And by prove, I mean you should get the actual GECK DPS equation and make a logical argument about where/how the equation is broken. Alternatively, you could start a forum thread and get dev to say the GECK's DPS calc is flawed. Another option would be (since you have the Xbox version) to get someone else to make a mod that would stand up static targets with known HP and DR and see how long it takes to kill them. Since we don't have multiplayer, that person would have to code NPCs to stay still while being attacked. They'd also want to mix in other NPCs with different HP and DR to verify their initial findings. Until you can prove that there's something wrong with the GECK's DPS calc, you should leave the main page alone. Servius 04:51, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
I've gotten 2nd party verification (thank you MadCat221) on a 2nd system (PC) to prove my intuition and show that my experiences aren't anomalous or specific to the Xbox360. The plasma rifle is a 12 rnd weapon, and the full clip magazine fires in 3-4 seconds, not 12.8 seconds as the GECK's DPS might lead us to believe. That's all the proof needed to make a judgment call on the veracity of GECK "Damage Per Second" calculations. It's discordant. Even if you take other factors into account, reload, clipsize magazine capacity, etc, it just becomes more obvious that it doesn't correlate, even to other weapons calculated through the GECK.
So where does that leave us? We've discovered that there's a major miscalculation in how the GECK determines semi-automatic DPS, seemingly as a result of the unexplained "semi-automatic fire delay max" factor. It's been verified that both plasma weapons are off by over 425% compared to the in-game experience. And we know the Rock-It Launcher was off by 400%. Knowing what we do now, there's no reason to trust any of it. You've proven your willingness to blindly trust the data, and the source of your data has proven itself to be erroneous. So, if anyone needs to show proof, it's you Serivus, because you're not wiggling around inside of a probabilistic 5% error margin here, you're off by a factor of four.

DPS, MDPS RemovalEdit

It is not The Vault's function to grossly misinform the entire world. The DPS/MDPS data needs to be removed. "In-game DAM" and ROF will have to suffice. Ash Nuke AshRandom (Talk) 14:38, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I oppose AshRandom's opinion and recommendation, at least given the lack of proof he has provided to date. I have asked him several times to prove the GECK's DPS calc is wrong by actually finding the calc, posting it for all to see, and showing where the calculation is wrong. I also suggested he could get a dev to state that the GECK's DPS calc is inaccurate. A third option would be to perform and record in-game tests and post them to YouTube or something. He has consistently refused to put forth any real proof that the calc is wrong and instead merely continues to post annecdotal "evidence" from his and one other player's experience, and based solely on that, believes that the DPS and MDPS info is wrong and should be removed. His alternative is to return to the DAM stat (which we have already agreed is an inaccurate way of comparing weapon damage). Given how much time I and others have put into getting the weapons page to its current state, I obviously have a personal stake in not seeing all that work undone based on a shoddy argument. However, given that my opinion is biased, I defer to User:Ausir or User:Mirar to make a decision on how high the bars should be to prove that the current data is wrong and what changes, if any, should be made to the data on this page. I suggest that, until they weight in, no changes should be made to the main page. Servius 15:38, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

The the Semi-Automatic Fire Delay Min/Max isn't even defined on the GECK website aside from a note explaining that it doesn't take effect until after you close the window.[1]

  # Semi-Automatic Fire Delay Max:
   * This allows semi-auto weapons to have a "sticky trigger" effect. 
  This variable affects the GECK-calculated DPS stat. 
  However, the affect only appears after you click OK and close the Weapon window.

You clearly don't understand it and haven't applied it correctly or the DPS wouldn't be so ridiculously far off. And as far as unarmed weapons go, jesus, the GECK website just says: [2]

  Unarmed Damage = Formula unknown at this time.

here's another note from the GECK website: [3]

  # Fire rate: Number of shots per second. This is only valid for automatic weapons. 
  Single shot weapons are restricted by their attack animation. 
  Their "rate of fire" can be altered by changing the Attack Multiplier in the Animation group.
  * As mentioned above, this variable only affects the GECK's DPS calculation if the "Automatic" box is checked.

ROF is only valid for automatic weapons? And we know for a fact we aren't applying the animation delay correctly because it doesn't appear until after you click OK? WTF? This editor was thrown together after the fact and it shows, I don't see how its estimated DPS can be trusted. Especially when the way you're using it has it telling us the strongest weapons in the game (plasma rifles) are weak, and that the rock-it launcher does 666 DPS, the poor deathclaw gauntlet only does 10 DPS yet you can kill a behemoth with it? Get real. This data is garbage. Ash Nuke AshRandom (Talk) 17:35, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Plasma RifleEdit

Well, in the GECK, the things that effect a gun's RoF are

1.Fire Rate (1.0000 for PR)
2.Whether or not it’s automatic (it isn’t)
3.Min/Max. Semi-Auto Fire Delay (Min: 0.100, Max:2.0000)
4.The models and animations chosen for the gun.

That’s what I know. The number “Attack Shots/Sec” on the Plasma Rifle is listed as 4. There are modifiers applied directly to the Shots/Sec afterward, but I don't know what they do to modify it. In this case, an Attack multiplier of 2 takes the Shots/Sec from 2, to the listed value of 4. The number .94 probably came from the fact that 42 (GECK's DPS value) is 93~94% of 45 (the listed damage). Anyway, I've got to go now, but I'll find out what those multipliers mean when I get back. Fiddlesoup 20:18, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that's how I got ROF. Let me know what you figure out, at this point I'm somewhat convinced it's DPS is wrong, as I can unload the entire 12 rnd clip magazine in about 4 seconds (not 12.8 sec)... Ash Nuke AshRandom (Talk)
Sorry I took so long. This was on my to do list, but got buried underneath learning the workings of the GECK.
Anyway, the Attack Multiplier modifies the shots/sec by altering how long the attack animation is (the anim of your character bracing against recoil).
It's not a straight relationship: The PR's default AM setting of 2 takes the S/s setting from 2 to 4, but in order to make it go up again, you need to change the multiplier to 5, which changes S/s to 5. It's difficult to get an exact reading, without making it automatic, which causes other problems (see below).
However, I think it'd be safe to say that 4 S/s is an "ideal" number, in that, with perfect reflexes you could shoot 4 per second.
As for the DPS, I'm not sure why it gives that reading. It's affected by several different variables, but I don't know the equation. It's possible that it's an error. The DPS on the RIL also exhibits unusual readings.
I forgot to mention, the S/s is the same on A3-21's, just the damage and other stats were changed.
On a side note, the problem I mentioned with automatics... After increasing the RoF to 5, I tried making it auto. Well, when I fired, the animation played... somewhat spastically, but no plasma came out (unless I fired semi-auto). Also, the GECK records a RoF for Col. Autumn's Laser Pistol of 12 shots/sec. Using a stopwatch, I timed it in-game at 5 shots/sec (it also appears to "stutter" a bit, rather than smoothly shooting all rounds). I'm adding this here, because I'm not sure if this is an issue with the game engine, or my computer.Fiddlesoup 08:39, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
It is most definitely an issue with the GECK editor, I've been digging into it as well and even according to the GECK website they know they're not showing DPS correctly, in fact there's even a note about how it won't factor in animation correctly until after closing the window....??!!!! At this point I've reached the highest level of frustration I can possibly get to without actually screaming and yelling about it. I'm going to move this to the weapons discussion page, you're now my 2nd source of proof that we need to abandon the semi-automatic weapons data gathered from this editor, it simply isn't giving us honest numbers. Ash Nuke AshRandom (Talk) 14:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

ConclusionEdit

Okay folks we've figured most of it out already. The "Semi-Automatic Fire Delay Max" works as follows: Using the plasma rifle as an example you can think of it this way: It has an attack speed of 4/second with a max fire delay of 2, so in the first 2 seconds you can get off 8 shots, then there's a 1 sec pause, then in the 4th second you can fire off the remaining 4 shots left in the weapon. So it takes 4 seconds to fire off a full clip magazine of 12. In reality this pause is often unseen, blending itself in with the weapon, however there are times when it amounts to a blatant pause or apparent trigger stickiness. Regardless, because it takes 3 seconds of real shooting with a 1 second pause averaged in we end up with an effective ROF of 3/sec, giving it a damage per second total of 135 (DPS). Expect to see new DPS numbers as well as columns for reload times, and ROF soon. I apologize to the world on behalf of The Vault, I'm sorry that we're currently so very wrong about DPS numbers, it wasn't anyone's fault for trusting in the GECK editor, it seemed legit. For now questionable DPS numbers need to be taken down, but, it's just too time consuming, there are way too many pages and I'm not going to go through them all until me and Fiddlesoup have finished collating the data (by hand as apparently the GECK can't do it correctly). Ash Nuke AshRandom (Talk) 22:16, 20 January 2009 (UTC)


New NumbersEdit

The data is going live this week, as the unarmed and explosives lists were completed first they're the first to be seen. These fall under the DPS↓Reloads and ROF↓Reloads categories, per-clip magazine DPS/ROF wasn't listed because they both amount to 1-shot weapons - instead their times are averaged. We do have DPS and ROF numbers on a per-clip magazine basis for everything outside of 1-shot and hth weapons, so expect to see that too. (ROF, DPS, MDPS chart, so far) lists both hand calculations and stopwatch time-trials - still a work in progress (it's set to global view, but, you may need to contact me for gmail shared-sheet permissions, sorry). Ash Nuke AshRandom (Talk) 13:42, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

To answer PC players questions ahead of time ROF (and therefore DPS) is based on the Xbox360 and PS3 fps target of 30 (frames per second). So obviously these numbers are most helpful to console players. PC users who may see FPS anywhere from single digits to over 60 FPS will see a proportional ratio to them. The reason for the disparity is many fold. First of all video cards without good vsync will see an average FPS rate which drops off sharply at times giving high-action encounters a slow-down effect. PC users graphical experience changes depending on their total ram and the combined power of their video cards and CPUs. These variables all changes yet again depending on resolution, video settings, options, etc. So you can see the problems that arise and why we choose to base ROF on console averages. Hope that helps ;) Ash Nuke AshRandom (Talk) 04:07, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for my ignorance, but IF I had a powerful PC that can run FO3 smoothly (it should be under 60 fps constantly I suppose?), will the ROFs of PC be the same on consoles with 30 fps or double? One more question, how many values from GECK weapons are misleading? We already know about DPS, does anything related to "Fire Rate" value have errors? --NovaRain 05:27, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
Okay I'll try to answer. At 60FPS the damage you could do in a single second would be greater. It's not a direct ratio, in other words I don't think you'd see double the ROF, but it is somewhat faster especially for weapons with big animations. Other question, I was worried about that myself but no, GECK's base-item-data seems fine, it's just the big equation that's inconsistent. You can find your PC's fps using Fraps, or possibly through the game itself which would be preferable, I have no idea (I don't have it for the PC). Ash Nuke AshRandom (Talk) 07:28, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
I suppose if we had time trials confirmed at 60FPS then we could determine the ratio -- I'd like to know what the exact difference is myself, I don't even know if it's a consistent difference, it might very well be more drastic for some weapons. Without the numbers we can only make guesses. We noticed there was a difference when we saw (about a two tenths of a second) difference between a pc clocked at 45 FPS (Fiddlesoup's PC) and what both of us were getting out of our consoles. If anyone feels like putting the time in to collect further data I wouldn't complain ;) Ash Nuke AshRandom (Talk) 07:53, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Honestly though you shouldn't worry too much about it, the point of this project was to obtain calculations that at very least APPROACHED REALITY so we could finally see which ones do the most damage for *real*. My point being that even if your PC runs faster or slower the comparison between weapons should still hold firm. You're not going to be walking around with a plasma rifle that suddenly does less damage than the blackhawk because of your FPS (yeah that's right I said it, the blackhawk does less damage; in real DPS the blackhawk is 109/clip magazine, 53w/reloads -- basic plasma rifle is 136/clip magazine, 78w/reloads). Ash Nuke AshRandom (Talk) 08:12, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Bare Hands Edit

Nowhere on the wiki do I see any information regarding attacks using no weapons at all, using just bare hands. How much AP does it use? What is the critical bonus? Multiplier? Base damage? Nowhere to be found. This is a surprising oversight. (A Wanderer) 03:38, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

That's mostly because there's no readily apparent way of accessing this information. There IS a weapon in the GECK called "bare fists" or something, but it's unused and doesn't appear to be connected to in-game unarmed damage. But, since you've mentioned it, I'll put it on my to-do list (which is currently taken up by school, then adding Ash's DPS data, etc.)Fiddlesoup 17:03, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Look under Unarmed skill

There's nothing there about it. That said, I finally got around to getting that info. My most consistent in-game testing data was:

  • no SPECIAL stat has any impact on unarmed damage (unlike melee damage; just confirming what I already knew)
  • With Unarmed at 0 (possible using the console command "player.forceav unarmed [integer]"), pure unarmed damage against an unarmored opponent (raider stripped of his armor) was 1.5 hp/strike
  • With Unarmed at 100, pure unarmed damage against the same target (using either the command "resethealth" on the raider, or loading a pretest save) dealt 6.5 hp/strike.
  • Neither power strikes (charged attacks, where you hold down the button) nor critical strikes (if that's possible) were counted.
  • Each point in the Unarmed skill bestowed an additional 0.05 hp/strike.

This puts the equation at BaseUnarmedDamage = 1.5 + (0.05xUnarmedSkill). Not sure if I've missed anything, but there it is.Fiddlesoup 04:02, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Christ, this something so simple why in god's name won't someone from bethesda just chip in?

Rate of Fire and V:W Edit

The page describes a column for Rate Of Fire, yet this column is missing for almost all of the weapons. And what the hell is v:w???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.5.244.244 (talkcontribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Moved from Special:ProblemReports/18824. // Porter21 U | T 12:45, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

The Rate of Fire column is missing because the user who was managing the overhaul of this page left the wiki over a dispute while the overhaul was taking place. This is mentioned in passing in the article (specifically, the part about Vault administration replacing data with calculations based on in-game tests). To the second question, I'm not 100% certain, since I didn't create that value, but it is my understanding that V:W is a Value:Weight ratio showing you how many caps you get for an item in relation to the space it takes in your inventory. Hope that's helpful, if this person ever returns, or for anyone else with similar questions.Fiddlesoup 04:09, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

The Kneecapper can do criticals Edit

Just wanted to point out that The Kneecapper actually can score critical hits, both normal and sneak attack ones. Someone with G.E.C.K. (or something) might want to look up how much damage critical hits from this weapon do.--Mehbah 22:25, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Autoaxe DPS? Edit

How is this calculated? I ask because it's the same as damage per hit for the autoaxe and ripper. But they definitely hit more than once per second. Am I missing something here?

Xbox 360 Edit

So, all of these weapon statistics come from a PC game editor.. If you have the Xbox 360 version, there is absolutely no way to find out this information.. Its not in the manual.. My point is, why didnt Bethesda just include all of this useful information in the game manual? I never buy strategy guides, but I assume they saved this info for the strategy guide so they could wring some extra dollars out of consumers? Hmm. At what point did the industry standard become to offer a game manual with insufficient information to play the game in order to make money off of strategy guides? And, more importantly, which game design company will be the one to question the propriety of this standard, reverse this trend, and reclaim their integrity? 67.172.16.255 12:28, 10 April 2009 (UTC)


Wild Bills SidearmEdit

The object id listed in the chgart is incorrect, it should be xx00a7cb. Daisho13 08:44, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

Just edited the MDPS values for ranged weaponsEdit

Using the equation of ( ( 5 Luck * Modified Crit Chance * Crit Damage ) + Weapon Damage ) * Rate of Fire from the top of the page, I have edited the MDPS values for the ranged weapons. Next I plan on finishing up with the melee weapons, and then going back and correcting the DPS values as well (more or less copying them from the individual pages, where they are accurate). The weapons page would do well with the rate of fire listed for all weapons too as well. Rydiak 04:26, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Pa's Fishing AidEdit

Please add here a newly discovered in Point Lookout shotgun by me: Pa's Fishing Aid. --BillyFckwards 16:12, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Missing Stats?Edit

Why is there no ROF or any such thing for the ranged weapons? I would really like to see how DPS and MDPS are calculated and even have the chance to work up my own formula, but this base data is missing from the table.

I would also like to know how many shots are fired in a burst in VATS, or is it the same for every weapon? I have not been able to find anything that says how many shots are fired in a burst in any article. (There also seems to be no mention in the wiki of the double damage done from headshots, though I don't know where that info would go. I was thinking perhaps there would be an article about targeting body parts and describing the various effects of each, ect. But no such article seems to exist.)

-mannon 17:05, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

just divide damage/sec by damage/shot, then multiply that by 60, and you get rounds/min. example ( Chinese Assault Rifle) 88/11=8, 8*60= 480rpm (dmg/s)/ (dmg/sht)=# ,#*60=rpm. so the Chinese Assault Rifle has a rof of 480 rds/min--Thedeerhunter 08:52, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

The biggest issue here is that DPS value, as shown in GECK, has no real meaning in the game, exempt for automatic weapons. For example, Chinese Assault Rifle and Xuanlong Assault Rifle show 44 and 48 compared to GECK, which is indeed damage done in half second (those two to 11 and 12 damage, while having same fate of fire of 8.0 attacks per second). But, let's look at basic Laser Pistol: GECK says its DPS is 11 (less then 12 for single shot), but in game it can fire very very quickly (as fast as you can click with mouse quickly), surely more then two hits per second.

On the other hand, single shot stat, in combination with Attack Shots/Sec value (Art and Sound page in GECK), describe much closer what is real rate of fire for those weapons. Although, it should be noted that values above 3shots/sec for non-automatic weapons can be difficult to confirm in the game, due to human limitations of fast mouse clicking.

P22 06:13, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

MDPS FormulaEdit

MDPS=C_{Base} \cdot C_{Mult} \cdot D_{Crit} \cdot R_{Hits/s} + B_{DPS}

where,
C_{Base} = the player character's base critical chance as a decimal value between 0 and 1.
C_{Mult} = the critical multiplier for a given weapon.
D_{Crit} = the additional critical hit damage for the weapon.
R_{Hits/s} = the number of hits per second, also the rate of fire of the weapon if accuracy is 100%.
B_{DPS} = the base DPS or non-critical hit DPS.

This is a simple formula that allows quick calculation of a weapon's MDPS for statistical purposes assuming 100% accuracy.

You can find the derivation, explanations, and examples on my blog page, which you can access here. This is just to help reduce clutter in this discussion page. The basic formula is the simplest, and it has been left here instead of the final formula.--Ehplee 16:21, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Critical Hit MultiplierEdit

The description is not perfectly clear whether the value in the table is the GECK value for automatic weapons or is the result of the GECK value being divided by the fire rate. I think it is implied that the value in the chart is indeed the modified value, but it is a bit confusing.

-mannon 17:05, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually I find the Damage values similarly confusing. The description seems to imply that the value is the result of all the shotgun pellets hitting, but just one beam of multibeam weapons. This should really be the total damage for all pellts, beams, whatever... unless you wish to also provide the number of pellets/beams as a column in the table. I dunno, I think it's just the description that is confusing me, that and I don't have access to this data from another source to verify so it needs to be extra clear exactly what the values mean.
-mannon 17:11, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

WARINIG: Divided critical multiplier values for automatic weapons are not true when using VATS!!! They only work in free fire mode.

Testing: Precision Gatling Gun (x4 in GECK), 100 Energy weapons, fully repaired, Finesse perk and Luck of 10 (base crit chance of 15%). Outside VATS, on average it took at least 15-25 bullets to get critical hit if firing only single shots outside VATS. Thus, formula works. But, if using VATS, almost every shot (8 rounds volley) was critical shot, which would make sense if no dividing is done (4*15+15=75%). P22 09:46, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

It seems I may be wrong. I was unable to reproduce my earlier tests. I'll investigate some more, and if I'm not able to confirm much higher critical chance in VATS for automatic weapons, I'll remove it from the article. P22 08:22, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
OK, I removed the info from the article, and restored tables to only shown critical multiplier divided by ROF for automatic weapons. P22 21:06, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

Who switched all the crit mods on each automatic weapons private pages from its less then 1 stat listed on the table to 1? --LordVukodlak 00:48, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I have no idea, but I'm really considering adding both values in the table. Since testing showed, that non-divided multiplier is used for criticals in VATS attacks. P22 08:22, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
How are you guys doing this testing?--Kingclyde 05:37, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
Take a look at example above. I take high crit weapon (according to GECK) put full skill and excellent condition of weapon, some perks that enhance critical chance too, and then do some free fire and some VATS fire and see how common are the criticals. Gatlings are best candidates, since they have ROF of 20, and actually do criticals compared to Miniguns, so if there is difference in critical hit occurrence between two modes of fire it would be most obvious with them.
Original idea was to test some people experience with Precision Gatling Laser when firing in VATS, since they got criticals much more often then would be believed if multiplier was divided by 20. P22 06:01, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Ash's numbers, and rewriting the pageEdit

Well, what needs to happen is we need to get numbers in the DPS column that are as accurate as possible. I have the data that Ash had finished before leaving. I just don't know how to share it... Additionally, the column headers need to be cleaned up, as the table for unarmed weapons shouldn't refer to reloading. Finally, after that's done we would need to update the individual pages, and remove the sections saying we're working on this. Technically, nobody's working on it now, since I haven't had time...Fiddlesoup 02:23, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

  • You can send me the data and I will do it!R0ND0 10:52, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
  • I've got the Data from Fiddlesoup (thank you for that), but it's incomplete. Especially the crit. chance is not calculated in 98% of the weapons. So give me a little bit time and I try to get it done.R0ND0 09:30, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Well, I knew it was incomplete, Ash kinda left while we were still collecting the data. If you need any help with that, I could provide that this week. I'm out of class for Spring Break.Fiddlesoup 03:06, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Rifles? Seriously? Edit

I find is odd that some people mention the proper usage of Magazines vs Clips, but nobody seems to find the concept of "Rifle-Shotgun" absurd; the proper term is "long arm(s)", or "long gun(s)" if you prefer. Lasers get a pass because it's part of their name, and being vague future tech leaves the possibility that it is justified in the game's reality.

Actually, I think this is pretty absurd, too. Laser/plasma "rifles" technically aren't rifles. I just use "laser gun" or "plasma gun". PlasmaFox 23:06, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

It is worded as such, to make easier distinction for which weapons applies Commando, and for which Gunslinger perk. 93.87.221.127 09:49, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

What's the best?Edit

I think that there must be a catergory were you can see what's the best(or a note or something) so you can see which is the most powerful instead of making comparissons all the time(same thing with armor)(as depending which character you have).(halfgod)

It's subjective what's "best", hence there shouldn't be such a category. -- Porter21 (talk) 00:08, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
I know but maybe a note or something(for example)

armor:

the Hei Gui Chinese stealth suit is a good option/the best armor for a stealth character because of it's cloaking.

weapon:

the Perforator is a good option for a stealth character because it's silent and it has high damage.

(only the best weapons/armor ofcourse because else it will be too time-consuming). and so you don't have to click on each weapon to find out if anyone prefers it because there will be a note at the end of the column. --Halfgod 17:35, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

the best weapon damage wise is the misterious strangers .44--5:33pm 13:48, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

For fucks sake,only pc users can get that,we're talking about everyone in general,but on topic,my favourite weapon,is the backwater rifle,the critcals it scores are amazing,things die quicker and the start flippin' about. Mr.Wolf 14:13, 6 July 2009 (UTC)


blackwater rifle hmmm i will think about it ,thanks wolf Halfgod 16:44, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Weapon Degradation -- FormulaEdit

Is there some sort of formula or something similar for determining degradation (how fast, how much health lost per hit, ...) of Weapons and Armor? If so, this should be posted (at least on the talk page). --Sentinel 101 16:37, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

New Weapon? Edit

Found browsing the internet... [4] The tesla rocket. It appears to be rocket launcher that fires tesla rounds that has been confirmed by several people on both pc AND 360.--Red366 16:19, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

It's cut content, you can only get it by using the console or glitching. -- Porter21 (talk) 16:32, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes but it does not as of yet have it's own page, although it is nice to be still finding new weapons even if they aren't in the main game.--Red366 16:54, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm not saying people can't create an article about it, more going at the fact that it's not like an essential new feature of the DLC is missing ;) Adding cut content simply does not have as much of a priority. -- Porter21 (talk) 17:03, 13 May 2009 (UTC)


It does have its own Page; Beta Tesla cannon, thats what its called, not tesla rocket.Mary roc 11:12, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Broken Steel updateEdit

The page still needs to be updated with the new weapons from Broken Steel (see Category:Broken Steel weapons). -- Porter21 (talk) 17:03, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

More headings that would be helpful Edit

RELOAD TIME -- It's also not clear in the damage-per-second and damage-per-AP whether it assumes having to reload or if it assumes you don't use up the magazine.

MODIFIED DAMAGE PER AP -- there are DPS and MDPS, but there isn't a MDPAP to go with DPAP, to take into account the bonus damage from criticals.

DAMAGE PER MAGAZINE -- Sniper-type rifles are nice if you're picking someone off at your leisure, but in a brawl having that 12-shot magazine in the Combat Shotgun is a big deal! It's helpful to know how much damage you can deal before being interrupted for a reload.

Alien Blaster Edit

Found the alien blaster and another one,but is named Firelance. Is this a glitch or is this gun really in the game?

It's a unique version of the Alien Blaster. See its page. --TheREALBloodscar 10:28, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

BARE FISTS/HANDS Sorry if this is old news... Edit

What about adding bare fists to the unarmed table. I may not have done enough research on it, but I couldn't even find a page for bare fists/hands. Any ideas?

I'm looking for this one too and can't find it. I need t know the AP cost. -- Blackened (unregistered)

I agree a barefist article is warranted, what the damage would be at 100 unarmed, and what the AP cost is. Obviously such information must be in the GECK.

I believe AP cost of using your bare fists is 22 AP, unsure of the damage though.

Zimmer's Plasma Pistol Edit

While doing the "Replicated Man" quest I decided I wanted to get A3-21's Plasma Rifle and get the "Wired Reflexes" Perk. As such I decided to ask Harkness to allow me to kill Zimmer and he gave me the plasma rifle and then told Zimmer about Harkness and recieved the Perk. I didn't really want to for Harkness to end up back at the Commonwealth so I killed Zimmer and his bodyguard immediately after recieving the perk. At first I wasn't able to loot Zimmer so I did the resurrect command and killed him again. When I looted his body I recieved a unique plasma pistol called "Zimmer's Plasma Pistol", it has the same damage as a regular plasma pistol but doesn't use any ammo and can be repaired with regular plasma pistols. Can someone please look into this and possibly make a page for it?

There is no such thing. I am looking in the GECK and there is no such entry. --MadCat221 18:06, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

LOLOLOLOLOL LIAR

Not being in the GECK doesnt meen it's non existant it's probably just a weird glitch. Insane14 23:00, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

It's an item added on by the Lawbringer Bounties Mod. Check to see if you are using that mod. Throckwoddle 17:43, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

And there we have our answer. I probably shoulda clarified on the Vanilla bit. In just the FO3.esm, there is no Zimmer's Plasma Pistol. --MadCat221 01:31, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
Oh, thank you. I was wondering where that came from in my inventory. RizzleQ 21:08, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Jack Edit

the special version of Ripper, Jack, has an MDPS value that does not take into account Jack's nature of performing multiple dozens of attacks per second, and is therefore misleading. this should be fixed to make the enormous different between Jack and Ripper clear.

Point Lookout update Edit

can somebody please add stats for point lookout weapons. --Wastelander6969 08:29, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

It looks like the article is missing a few weapons from Point Lookout.Sorry if I missed it on the article but I couldn't find the Ritual knife, Shovel, Fertilizer shovel, or the Toy knife anywhere. I'd try and add them in but I'm still new to wiki, and don't want to mess anything up. --Moltenfungus 23:11, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm almost done. Amorality 23:16, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

The Double-Barrel Shotgun does 94 damage in perfect condition and when the user has 100 Small Guns Skill.

  • Actually not. This damage is only if you have both damage perks(ghoul ecology and superior defender). The actual max damage without perks is 85.

What about the bio-gas canisters? I seem to have 14 of them... picked them up doing the Antique Land quest? They have an article but aren't listed here... - 68.125.13.227 21:22, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Melee and Unarmed Columns question Edit

Why aren't the columns for melee and unarmed lined up? They have the exact same info. --AwNNeR 5 05:33, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Question?Edit

I'm thinking of displaying most unique, rare, and DLC weapons in my house when I get the game. If I could carry one of these weapons with me which should I carry? By the way I'm thinking of making either small guns or energy weapons my main skill.Doylej0131 15:36, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Take the Gauss Rifle. It's both rare and DLC. If you want unique and DLC, take the MPLX Novasurge.--Amitakartok 22:55, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

What about the unique desintigrator it does alot of damage and ammunition but the only downside is the ammo only being on Zeta. But which do you think is better this or the Gauss Rifle. Because, I think I would prefer something that I should use often, plus the gauss looks cool for being displayed. I don't have the game yet because I wan't the game of the year edition because I wouldn't be able to go on Xbox Live, and I wan't to plan my character out(ie. what skills have the most points, main weapons, etc.)Doylej0131 17:27, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Also, I don't wan't to rule out small guns because of the power of some weapons(like the terrible shotgun and the backwater rifle/Lincolns Repeater)Doylej0131 17:50, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Mothership Zeta Weaponry Edit

Can someone slap up some data for Mothership Zeta—Preceding comment was unsigned. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Yeah, data for MZ weapons needs to be added. -- Porter21 (talk) 07:56, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Not quite sure but.. weapon glitch? Edit

Well.. i was on the way to do reilly's rangers quest, (to get eugene) and i came across a few super mutant overlords.. and i won't go into details, but when i chose my usual weapon, the 10mm SMG i got from the anchorage simulation because it has some ridiculous 900000 health or something, i noticed it said it had 88 damage... is this normal? i had no drugs or anything and i did'nt think any perks were affecting this (other than superior defender but thats only +5 damage).. any ideas what this might be anyone? (--Demonsnail 10:01, 10 August 2009 (UTC))


  • IT IT because of SUperior Defender.. If you have gotten Ghoul Ecology.. it might effect as well.. Because these perks (Not sure about GE) give +5 per SHOT... it makes it quite useful at automatic weaponry. like Eugene and 10mm submachine gun --NightPhoenix 11:01, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Projectile numbers should get a display in the table and damage should get marked Edit

With the DLC MZ (and maybe some weapons before) we have gotten important weapon damage differences now and this fact should be immediately visible in the data sheet when comparing the weapons and their damage, because the projectile numbers matter a lot.

This wasn't important before but now we have a few powerful weapons that look very weak but cause a hell of damage.

I suggest something like "damage(x<number of projectiles>)" or a seperate column for the number of projectiles or anything else that is close to the damage value and if there is a separate entry than a special mark at the damage should be placed to indicate a multi-projectile damage. --84.162.204.97 19:51, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

An Idea Edit

I'm sure anyone would be loath to add yet another column to the tables but it would be nice to be able to compare weapons for sneak attacks at a glance with a sortable column instead of having to eyeball it with the DMG and +Crit damage stats. Better yet would be a sneak attack value in and out of VATS (since they're not always the same) as well as a sneak attack value with and without better criticals. So ideally 4 columns in total. Perhaps with the level of clutter already present on these tables this would be counter productive and the appropriate values would be better presented on the Sneak Attack Critical page in a table truncated to include only the best (top 10 or so) sneak attack weapons? 68.34.22.222 02:08, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

The only weapons that have different sneak critical values in VATS and outside are multiprojectile shotgun weapons. It would be best if it was single column, with parentheses for out of VATS exceptions (like all those devastating shotguns). P22 07:39, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
Are all the shotguns 9 pellet volleys?68.34.22.222 16:31, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
Depends from weapon to weapon. P22 17:17, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

I would also like if MDPS values were removed, because DPS values are not correct for most non-automatic weapons. I mean yes, they are strait from GECK, but they don't show correct damage per second. I know they are used by AI for some calculations (so I guess DPS could stay), but neither DPS or MDPS values give proper average damage for player, so it at least makes MDPS pointless (as guide to the player). Only truly correct thing with DPS is automatic weapon damage (shows damage done in 1/2 second).

Instead, I would like if Attack Shots/Sec values where added. It makes a lot of difference, if for example Hunting Rifle fires 0.75 shots/sec and 25 damage per shot compared to 10mm Pistol that can fire 6shots/sec and do 9 points of damage in every of them. Pistol will outperform such rifle in close range, if you fire quickly outside VATS. In effect, it will have higher "true DPS". Still, it should be noted that it's kinda difficult to get above 3-4shots/sec in actual gameplay, for weapons that are not fully automatic. It may have something to do with mouse input, or there is some hard cap, I don't know. Anyway, in same way how AP values show weapon "speed" in VATS, Attack Shots/Sec values show it outside VATS, so they are pretty much important part of gameplay.

I would also propose if critical multiplier values for automatic weapons are changed a bit. The thing is that, according to testing I've done, multiplier is divided for automatic weapons only when used outside VATS. In VATS, true unmodified multiplier is used (and crit is per volley, not per bullet). Look at the testing notes at this talk page about Precision Gatling Laser. It would probably be best to show both values. Something like "x1.0 (x0.125)", with note that value in parentheses is for single shot outside VATS. P22 07:39, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

# of Projectiles and SA + BC damage Edit

i made this for personal use since it more accurately describes the statistics i care about in a weapon, namely sneak attack damage. feel free to use it in whole or part for the article.

NAME DMG /SHOT CRITDMG # Projectiles SA + BC + HS Preks + Mod for Difficulty
Callahan\'s Magnum65501560334.95
Lincoln\'s Repeater50501500300.3
Blackhawk55451490294.53
Backwater Rifle45451450271.43
The Terrible Shotgun8040924801443.75
Lever-Action Rifle40401400242.55
Reservist\'s Rifle40401400242.55
Sniper Rifle40401400242.55
Victory Rifle40401400242.55
Paulson\'s Revolver4535920701206.98
Scoped .44 Magnum35351350213.68
Double-Barrel Shotgun8530919601143.45
Ol\' Painless30301300184.8
Railway Rifle30301300184.8
Combat Shotgun552791678980.6
Hunting Rifle25251250155.93
Wild Bill\'s Sidearm1015113086.63
Perforator1014112483.16
Colonel Autumn\'s 10mm Pistol1313113086.63
Xuanlong Assault Rifle1212112080.85
Dart Gun61219666.99
Chinese Assault Rifle1110110471.61
Infiltrator71018862.37
Sydney\'s 10mm \"Ultra\" SMG9919063.53
10mm Pistol9919063.53
Assault Rifle8818057.75
10mm SMG7717051.98
.32 Pistol6616046.2
Silenced 10mm Pistol8516247.36
Chinese Pistol4414034.65
Zhu-Rong v418 Chinese Pistol4414034.65
B.B. Gun4414034.65
The Kneecapper7509300184.8
Sawed-Off Shotgun50129848501.27
Laser Pistol1212112080.85
Smuggler\'s End18181180115.5
Protectron\'s Gaze24245816482.79
Colonel Autumn\'s Laser Pistol10221172110.88
Plasma Pistol25251250155.93
Alien Blaster10010011000706.86
Firelance12012011200845.46
Laser Rifle23221224140.91
Wazer Wifle28281280173.25
Plasma Rifle45441444267.96
A3-21\'s Plasma Rifle50501500300.3
Mesmetron101413.86
Gauss Rifle100501700415.8
Metal Blaster552791678980.6
Tri-Beam Laser Rifle75153570340.73
Tesla Cannon40301340207.9
Microwave Emitter601001840496.65
Alien Atomizer35401380277.2
Atomic Pulverizer37401388282.74
Captain\'s Sidearm3540615801108.8
MPLX Novasurge80751770456.23
Alien Disintegrator65501560401.94
Destabilizer30201240180.18

the last column is meant to be a calculation of damage with all +damage perks (not including goul ecology) on the hardest difficulty setting. Tetracycloide 01:14, September 14, 2009 (UTC)

Vengeance Edit

I'm suprised the superior version of the gatling laser, aka (Vengeance) is not listed in this article. It is a drop from a supermutant around and near Vault-Tec HQ. At full CND it does 305 damage and only weighs 18 lbs. --DeathsFlagShip 04:03, October 27, 2009 (UTC)DeathsFlagShip

i laugh at your stupidity(HA HA)look, here's the thing...unique weapons sometimes, albeit very rarely, end up in the hands of normal enemy's, this in no way,yes, NO WAY means its dropped, there have been repeated accounts of people finding talon company merc's with the victory rifle, and although its highly unlikely, though possible...(maybe enemy's don't spawn if your not there?) that the super mutants could get through the entirety of the death-claw sanctuary, and grab vengeance, keep in mind though, it is not a drop, it is just very very rarely dropped by enemy's,(i suspect you can lose items through this same way as well) like, enemy's dieing then you not getting there in time to pick it up.Toolazytomakeaaccount 06:20, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Weapons Damage Calculation Edit

Can it be, the damage some weapons make is dependent on the players level?

My char is now at level 27, after completing the mainquest my karma was set to neutral so i had to switch from jericho to charon as my partner.

As i looked into my weapons locker for a good "small gun" for charon i was astonished about some damage ratings e.g.

10 mm SMG -> 90 Damage
Chinese Assault Rifle -> 97 Damage

These Values didn't match any value on your list. Can someone explain this?

Small Gun skill is @100 since level 20, where these guns didn't the same amount of damage

--213.133.109.67 16:00, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

VATS-Specific Damage/AP Calculations Edit

First post, so I apologize for any format / etiquette / other inadequacies.

I've been trying to determine which weapons have the 'best' damage/AP in VATS. I've read the weapons page, the talkback, and the MDPS explanation, but am not sure that I understand everything, especially with regards to the VATS framework.

Assumptions:

  • All shots hit
  • 'Infinite' AP for comparisons sake (to avoid 'break-point' iregularities)
  • Ignore reload AP costs (for simplicity)
  • Start with small guns (for simplicity)

I'm having a tougher time than I thought I might. Here's what I tried:

  • Damage / shot from this wiki, +10 for ghoul ecology and defender perks
  • Shots / 'burst' when using AP (1 for most, 3 assault rifles, 4 SMG)
  • Critical multiplier from this wiki x 15% for my crit % (10 luck + 5 finesse)
  • Critical damage from this wiki
  • Action Points / burst from this wiki

This approach leads to Sydney's SMG being highest. The calculation:

  • 9+10 = 19 damage/shot
  • 4 shots/burst
  • calc: 76 damage / burst
  • crit % = .1% x 15 = 1.5%/shot
  • 9 critical damage/critical shot
  • calc 76.5 damage/burst (76+ 4x1.5%x9)
  • 20 AP/burst
  • 3.83 damage/AP spent

So... I'm guessing that this result is wrong or that my impressions of using the weapons in play is incorrect. Can anyone help me please? Thanks for any methodological improvements you can suggest.

--The bruiser 03:29, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

In V.A.T.S., the critical chance, after the critical multiplier is applied, is increased by 15%. So, your DMG/AP would be,
\begin{array}{ll}
& 4 \times [([0.15 \times 0.1] + 0.15) \times 9 + 19] \div 20 \\
= & 4.097
\end{array}
Your calculations look correct otherwise. However, the DMG/AP stat in the weapon list does not take account for perks and critical hits. For the Sydney's SMG, the DMG/AP stat is 1.80 as it says.--Ehplee 20:17, November 29, 2009 (UTC)
(I'm new so not sure if I'm doing this 'edit' correctly but here goes.)
I went back and added my 50% better criticals perk. So if I'm doing this right, for someone with finesse, better criticals, ghoul ecology, and superior defender, the best small guns (ignoring range considerations!) in VATS are (in order)
Callahan's Magnum 4.35
Sydney's SMG 4.25
Terrible Shotgun 4.00
Backwater Rifle 3.86
Lincoln's Repeater 3.75
10mm SMG 3.75
Lever-Action Rifle 3.47
Xuanlong Assault Rifle 3.27
Reservist's Rifle 3.25
Double-Barrel Shotgun 3.10
Does that pass the 'sniff test' to all you folks out there? I guess the next considerations would be range (sorry Sydney SMG and shotguns) and reloading (sorry double-barrel and Reservist Rifle).
Hmmmm - just a surprise to me I guess! Any feedback/color/fixes would be appreciated.
Also - am I the only one who plays in VATS mostly? For someone like me this would seem to be THE most important statistic to have on the table. Maybe it's the uncertainty of what perks to include that's the problem/holdup?--The bruiser 02:56, December 1, 2009 (UTC)
So I went back and added energy weapons and big guns to the mix. Here's the list of top 20 weapons overall. This is just so different from what I expected to find! At least in some ways... no surprise to see Firelance up top.
Firelance 15.50x
Alien Blaster 13.00x
MPLX Novasurge 7.50x
Atomic Pulverizer 6.17x
Drone Cannon 5.75x
Drone Cannon Ex-B 5.75x
Metal Blaster 4.72x
Gauss Rifle 4.67x
Microwave Emitter 4.58x
Heavy Incinerator 4.47x
Callahan's Magnum 4.35x
Sydney's 10mm "Ultra" SMG 4.25x
Tri-Beam Laser Rifle 4.06x
Tesla Cannon 4.06x
The Terrible Shotgun 4.00x
A3-21's Plasma Rifle 3.98x
Vengeance 3.97x
Backwater Rifle 3.86x
Lincoln's Repeater 3.75x
10mm SMG 3.75x
I understand that the Metal Blaster for instance is awesome for a freehand sneak (multi-crits). But using it in VATS seemed unimpressive. What am I missing? For instance, could DR for enemies a fixed 'absorption' rather than a % negated type effect? If so, that would clearly be a case for higher DMG weapons as opposed to higher ROF weapons.
Note that I'm not sure how many shots/burst are fired by miniguns, Eugene, and the Gatling Lasers, so I used 5 - if that number should be higher then they would clearly move up. (I'm not in a position to fire up the game just now.)
The Metal Blaster has a really low AP cost obviously - but even with a ton of shots it seemed FAR less effective at bringing down enemies on Very Hard than, say, Xuanlong or Lincoln's Repeater with full AP committed (100 skill and repair for all). What am I missing?
One last question - I know there's a lot above about not cluttering the tables, but would it make sense to add a column for "Perfect" Damage/AP? The column would assume 100 skill, 100 repair, and all relevant perks have been taken.--The bruiser 03:42, December 1, 2009 (UTC)
I'm not a site admin, but I believe that all the statistics listed in all of the articles should be base values only (i.e. no perks, no critical hits, 100 skill). This is to prevent bias towards any one of many possible character builds, so it's basically "the uncertainty of what perks to include," as you said. I'm not saying that your findings are useless (they can be quite useful, actually), but they should be left in this Discussion page; people do read Discussion pages, and do use them to discuss different strategies.
From what I've read around this site, multi-shot weapons like the Metal Blaster have critical hits and critical damage applied separately to each individual shot only outside of V.A.T.S. In V.A.T.S., the critical damage is applied to one shot only, which is why it seems unimpressive.--Ehplee 00:36, December 2, 2009 (UTC)
The Metal Blaster, if it does not get a Critical an VATS, only does 55 damage. If it does, it gets 82. However, if the Metal Blaster gets a Sneak critical, it gets 27x2(sneak bonus)=54x1.5(better criticals)=81x1.5 again(headshot)=121.5x9(nine beams)=1093.5. That is what makes the Metal Blaster the power weapon it is. It sucks in VATS, but outside of VATS, you can 1-shot Deathclaws.--72.144.106.228 00:08, December 16, 2009 (UTC)Hollow Points

Weapon Ranges Edit

Is there an official 'range' statistic for weapons, whether inside or outside of VATS? Clearly farther away chance to hit decreases, but is there something that measures this directly? I.e., the sniper rifle is capped at X units and % hit decreases at some rate to this figure, while an SMG has a presumably smaller value of X?

I know that the spread value is somehow tied up in this but I suspect that that does not tell the whole story. For instance, the sniper rifle, Lincoln Repeater, Reservist Rifle, etc., all have spread of 0, but I seem to have different experiences (at same skill and repair levels 100%) in terms of how far each can shoot in terms of maximum distance freehand and in terms of accuracy at the same distance.

Anyone have any color to help here? I'd really like to know what weapon has the best 'range'. Or maybe this concept isn't applicable because there's some other form of math going on behind the curtain? I'd really appreciate any insight.

PS - I've played the game through three times and just now decided to try taking part in the wiki... this could be dangerous for my spare time...--The bruiser 03:01, December 1, 2009 (UTC)

I know that the Sniper Rifle, it's unique variants, and the Gauss Rifle have practically infinite range outside of V.A.T.S. The moment enemies spawn in the distance, I could bring up the scope and pick them off. See the Sniper rifle page for reference images for shooting targets at very long range, since the shots do not go exactly where the center of the scope is aimed before you press the fire button. The Spread statistic applies outside of V.A.T.S. only, and it is a measure of how wide the "cone" of fire is (not sure what units it's in). I also noticed that outside of V.A.T.S., the game sometimes auto-aims and goes for the enemies' legs, even though they are behind cover. I'm not aware of any reliable information on how this auto-aim works.--Ehplee 00:53, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

Sawed off Shotguns Edit

I save a game just before entering the electronics store where the three raiders with SMG's and a missile launcher jump you. Pretty nasty fight. I tried playing it many times with all the choices of weapons and sawed off shotgun is supposed to have 100 MDPS (I have black widow) but it performed very badly. Combat shotgun performed better than the MDPS stat implies because it knocks them back and they have trouble responding. So:

  1. Is the sawed-off shotgun stats correct? It has reload every 2 shots and no crit so how can it be 100 MDPS?
  2. Anyone have stuff on knockback effects of each weapon? The laser pistol has 77 MDPS (almost as much as a combat shotgun) but as you fire they keep fighting back so even though the MDPS looks good it doesn't lower the enemies MDPS on you. The laser pistol(rifle) was good the first round to take 4 accurate shots against the missile launcher to disarm it or make it useless. ~alatari 97.85.185.160 18:02, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

shotguns have a unique quality similar to the assault weapons, the damage is multiplied by the amount of pellets that hit someone, and the sawed off shotgun has a large spread, making it useless except for up close, plus the 2 shot thing gets annoying.Toolazytomakeaaccount 18:15, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

tenpenny tower

i already got susan lancaster as a slave so i cant ask her about the gouls what should i do

object ids Edit

where do i find the object ids? the geck? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MikeRyan (talkcontribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Well, you can find them there. You can also simply visit the article for the weapon you want to know the ID of; they are listed in the infobox. -- Porter21 (talk) 19:12, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
well the id for the simulation weapos of 10mm and tha assault rifles are wrong thats why i asked.
It just said incorrect id or something when i tried player.additem
MikeRyan 18:27, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
Let me guess. You entered the "xx12345" code with the x's, right? Nitty Tok. 18:30, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
i know how add item works i entered 02(thats how anchorage is loaded for me)but nothing happened
so no i didn't type xx MikeRyan 06:34, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
I will add the object ID's here so that it saves people the trouble of having the consult the G.E.C.K, or having to go to seperate pages to find the information. Its just for convenience, the other pages do this so I can't understand why the weapons page should be any different.TheUnbeholden 08:56, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Damage per second Edit

How does this number make any sense for single-shot weapons and single-hit melee weapons? I understand the figure for fire damage. I don't understand what it even means for a pistol shot.--Gothemasticator 21:13, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Not sure whether I understand your question. DPS is simply "damage per attack" multiplied with the "number of possible attacks per second" - think of it as a theoretical maximum. For single-shot weapons the figure is somewhat inaccurate (too high usually) since it does not take reloading times or clip sizes into account; that's what the more advanced calculations like MDPS are for (which try to take criticals and reloading into account).
On a sidenote, the DPS numbers shown in our weapon infoboxes are a bit more advanced than the basic definition since they at least take certain special cases into account. They still don't factor in reloading times due to lack of an accurate way to measure that (and a whole other can of worms I don't want to bore you with ;) ). If you're interested in the details, there's a whole lot of discussion about DPS and other weapon stats on Template talk:Weapon gamebryo. -- Porter21 (talk) 22:56, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation and the link. I was confused by the description in the legend in this article, since it does not explain the "damage per attack multiplied by attacks per second" bit.--Gothemasticator 00:33, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Weapon sorting, new and old Edit

There is a section of just the new weapons from the add-ons, but they are also mixed in with the general lists. Seems like they should maybe be removed from them if they have their own section, so players who do not have the add-ons (like me) don't have to sort out the new weapons. Seems pointless relisting any weapons twice.

The M199 Assault Rifle Edit

I was in the museum of technology a while ago, and i saw a reference to a M199 Assault Rifle. Does anyone have any information regarding this weapon? Could it possible be the Military Assault Rifle we see in New Vegas?Exeter17 23:45, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Operation Anchorage Simulation Weapons Edit

I have noticed that there is no mention of the weapons used during operation anchorage, that is the weapons inside the simulation, These weapons have higher hp and look less worn than their non simulation counterparts. Not only that, but they are also obtainable outside the simulation via gary 23 exploitation, I would add these items with the name OA SIM (weapons name here) next to their non sim counterparts, however I do not know their stats, If someone could give me the stats (specificaly anything that is not the same as their counterpart) or just add the weapon themselves that would be great and make the article more complete Superinsomniac 22:31, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

Although I partially agree with you about their mention, I think they wouldn't be added because of the very small part of the game they play, plus the fact that they are not obtainable in the 'real world'. But then again, the same arguement could be said for the simulated rolling pin. Chaos ian7 04:42, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

They're mentioned on the respective article page; no need to also mention 'em here. --Kris User Hola 04:55, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Probably for the best then. Chaos ian7 00:22, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Okay... Edit

Ever since the last edit, the templates for the guns are cut off and you have to zoom in just to see the whole table. Great Mara 22:04, March 25, 2011 (UTC)

Typos Edit

As editing is locked, can anyone who can edit please fix the typos of the ammunitions used? We got a lot of rounnd or rouund etc. and that makes the sorting hardly useful. BigDuke66 14:27, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

Scoped Weapons Edit

How about expanding the categories of weapon type and add scoped weapons? I think it could be useful to differentiate between weapons with and without scopes. --BigDuke66 21:27, September 20, 2011 (UTC)

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