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Talk:Enclave

From The Vault

Concerning the Vault Experiments Project: It's always been my opinion that this is really very, very stupid. It doesn't make any sense. First off, the alleged eventual goal of it all--to test the capacity of Americans to live in difficult conditions for a long time to see if they could make it to Alpha Centauri in colony ships--is bunk, because there's no spaceships in Fallout. Second, even if you accept spaceships, it still doesn't make sense because in performing the experiments, the government has likely killed most of the Vault Dwellers, leaving hardly anyone left to actually go to Alpha Centauri or anyplace else. Third, it's just totally unnecessary. The plot of Fallout 2 works just fine without something as ridiculous as Vault Experiments coming along to complicate things. The Enclave controls the Vaults because the Vaults belong to the US Goverment. That's why they could send the all-clear to Vault 8 and could open up Vault 13 to grab its inhabitants. The Enclave wants to cleanse the mainland to retake it. It makes more sense for the Enclave to be interested in keeping the Vault Dwellers ALIVE if they want to have anyone to recolonize America. There's just no need for Vault Experiments which is why I suggest that they never happened at all. I say they should be stricken from Fallout canon and thus not included in the Enclave article. Spazmo

Haha, wow. I mean my God. How ignorant can you get.

First off, it "dosn't make any sense" because there are no spaceships in Fallout? Are you that fucking moronic? Why would a huge project, designed to transport massive amounts of humans to another part of this universe "not make sense" because the projects spaceship was not in certain areas of a post-apocalyptic souther California?

Second, that you were ignorant to ignore the first point it seems you're even more ignorant when it comes to bitching about the vault experiment itself! The people of the vaults obviously would NOT be going. They are designed to test and record the human condition in various conditions that would be similiar or they would face on the trip. Did you not notice the vaults that were expect to FAIL? Did you think they would just bring the corpses? You moron.

Third, that the "plot would work fine" without the fact of the vault experiment being known has NOTHING to do with it's validity. There were many things, even towns, that we could have gone without and not touched the plot. Good God, you ignorant bloody idiot.

Fourth, the all clear of Vault 8 was PART of the experiment. So you're point is, as before, completely invalid.

Fifth, they want to take back the mainland. The genetic purity of their "taking back" ideology came about AFTER they realised everyone on the mainland was "mutated". So since they didn't have a time machine, they had no way of knowing. In which case they DID make use of the controlled vaults and vault dwellers, as experiments. Experiments in a project that would allow them to retake the mainland with almost no use of manpower. Read.

Next time, just think before you even remotely type and realize how much you need to shut the fuck up. 124.182.151.40 Harlequin

I like how you guys handled that like adults (note the sarcasm)... 74.5.111.155 08:28, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I would like to mention to everyone that the "Vault Experiments" that were used in Fallout 3 based on cut material from Fallout 2. I said cut, as in "not included in the original storyline." --Killchain 22:16, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Bullshit. Did you actually play Fallout 2 and talk to president Richardson? 15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 22:24, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
I sat down today, hacked the piss out of a character and went and spoke to Richardson. You were right, I was wrong. Still begs the question why a government organization would specifically build something like the Vaults in the hope of a nuclear armageddon. Killchain 05:52, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
They were planning to go to a different planet, it seems the experiments aimed to provide input as to how to arrange the ship so that the passengers survive the trip, rather than kill each other out of boredom. 15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 10:06, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
If it was put into Fallout 3 based on cut material, than the Fallout 3 material is canon regardless of what it is from. Anyways, we cant be sure that what Richardson said was completely true or not. Curling even stated that the point of the Enclave was the reestablishment of the human race upon the continental United States. 98.198.83.12 02:10, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] This article should be renamed, and misunderstandings cleared up

I have to say, as I understand it, I think everyone's labeling of "The Enclave" in this wiki is completely wrong. In Fallout 2, "The Enclave" didn't appear to refer to the actual US Government remnant itself, but rather it referred to the Oil Rig in the pacific. It makes sense. In geography, an Enclave is an area of a country that is completely surrounded by the area of another country and does not connect in any way to its larger portion. In this sense, the oil rig is the "Enclave" of the US Government, its one base of operations that is separated from the rest of the irradiated and destroyed United States by virtue of the ocean, but at the same time sits in the middle of that world and is surrounded by the potential hostility of that world.

If you notice in Fallout 2, all "Enclave" members use the phrase "The Enclave" to refer to the oil rig. Navarro soldiers say they liked their post on The Enclave better since it wasn't so separated. Navarro mechanics in the hangars talk about new troops coming over from "The Enclave" via vertibird. In perhaps the biggest and most obvious explanation, the captain of the PMV Valdez, an "Enclave" deserter, says that with the right programming you can make the tanker take you to "The Enclave."

In Fallout 2, the only people who refer to The Enclave as an organization are people who are not in it and thus do not understand it. Metzger and The Brotherhood both mention picking up scattered radio transmissions talking about "The Enclave," which was probably just soldiers talking about their home base over the radio and outsiders misunderstanding it. I'm sure the Chosen One would have cleared it up on his return, explaining that he destroyed the remnants of the US Government on board their base, the Enclave. Unless of course it is canon that he has IN<4. Indeed, talking to Lynette or other smart people after you have destroyed the oil rig will have them talk about the United States Government being the antagonist you defeated, not the Enclave.

Sooo, in conclusion, in Fallout 2 there is no evidence whatsoever that "The Enclave" refers to the actual organization itself. The organization is simply called the United States Government, the United States of America, etc. I think it was a Fallout 3 bastardization/misunderstanding of the whole thing that kind of messed it up and popularized the wrong terminology. It may seem like a small thing to pick at, but mislabeling and misunderstanding the primary recurring antagonist of the Fallout universe is a pretty big oops. Shows a misunderstanding of the source material, unless someone can show me how I'm wrong. Which I suppose it is entirely possible, but playing through Fallout 2 shows an immense wealth of evidence to support my point.

As a result, this entire article, The Enclave, should be renamed the United States Shadow Government or something of the like, and the article or term "The Enclave" direct toward the oil rig base in Fallout 2. This seems to be a big misunderstanding of Fallout canon that should be straightened out. Handlebars 18:53, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Technically it's true what you say, but given that even in Van Buren, a game designed and later developed by creators of Fallout 2, the organisation was designated as the Enclave (Arcade Grannon and his lost Enclave patrol). Then there are Enclave Patrolmen around Navarro, Bird refers to Enclave as both the Oil Rig and organisation, same with Curling: "{172}{}{The Project that the Enclave has dedicated itself to these past several decades has been the reestablishment of the human race upon the continental United States. God Bless America.}", Navarro techs are designated as Enclave technicians... Everything points to the fact that BOTH the Oil Rig and the organisation are called the Enclave. That Furry Bastard 20:29, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Seeing as this is mainly a Fallout 3 wiki and they are called The Enclave by everyone in the game, it would just confuse most people to call them the U.S. Govt.GodPlageon 19:04, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

It's not "mainly a Fallout 3 wiki". It was founded before Fallout 3 and covers all Fallout games. Ausir 23:20, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I hardly see how this is mainly a Fallout 3 wiki, there is just as much info on the other two titles, if not more on Fallout 2.

Its true what you say Furry Bastard. But all that just seems to speak to the progressive unfolding of the main quest. Everything is labeled as you understand things up to that point. For instance, the main quest will assume you went to Navarro before the Oil Rig, and since all you have to go on by that point is some "Enclave," everything is labeled as such. i.e., everything is labelled with your character thinking some group called the Enclave took your tribe. Later it is revealed that it is actually the US Government remnants that took them. It isn't until later, inside Navarro, that it is revealed that The Enclave actually refers to their home base.

As for Curling, the biology doctor on the oil rig if I recall correctly, well, he is ON the Enclave. So it makes sense that since you are working within the Enclave, to refer to the work done by the people there in such a way. All he's really saying is that the main project everyone on the Enclave has been dedicated to is the FEV final solution. It is, after all, the only scientific endeavor that appears to be going on there, or at least by far the most paramount. As for Enclave technicians in Navarro, well, seeing as how the base was only recently established, those technicians likely just arrived from the oil rig. So the labeling is actually correct, they are technicians from the oil rig. The whole labeling seems to be intent on furthering the feeling that the government is expanding to the mainland.

All main quests unfold logically and progressively, with things becoming more clear as you discover more about what's going on. For instance, people's names are not listed in the game's description of them until you speak with them. Fallout 2's labeling reflects this progression in every aspect of the game. Fallout 3's labeling is just an amateurish mistake on reading that trend. I myself never got the feeling during the main quest of Fallout 2 that I was actually fighting an "Enclave." Maybe for a short while between the Arroyo abduction and Navarro, but after Navarro it is quite clear who you are fighting and what they are called: the remnants of the US Government.

The gate guard at Navarro is an important character, which is why he is a talking head when so many arguably more important characters are not. His importance is that he is your first true introduction to the antagonist of the game, your first conversation with who you are fighting. He is the "WTF?" factor when you realize what's really going on. And the gate guard clearly identifies that Navarro is "federal property," i.e. government property, and I do not believe he once mentions "Enclave."

As for Van Buren, it's non canon. If I recall correctly, it also possesses the same issue that Fallout 3 does, which is that it is made by different people from the first two and thus mistakes will be made. The game was also still a work in progress, you can hardly judge such thing by an unreleased non-canon title that was never finished. Handlebars 21:02, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Uh, no, Sawyer and (before he left) Chris Avellone both worked on Fallout 2 (the game that introduced the Enclave) and both refer to the organisation as Enclave and to the Oil Rig as, well, the Oil Rig. Your points are valid, but you're not taking one thing into account - while technically it's still the government of the United States of America, it's been 165 years since the war, six generations. In that time, it is likely that they believe to them both as the US Government and the Enclave.
Which retains its double meaning - it's an Enclave, the sole remaining outpost of pre-War United States, surrounded by lawlessness and terror (or, rather, what they believe themselves to be) of the post-War United States. To be honest, it's a non-issue - Enclave equals pre-War government and is, pretty much, used interchangeably. That Furry Bastard 23:06, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the Enclave originally, when it was founded, could have referred only to the Oil Rig (although according to Van Buren the Enclave was the name of the shadow government founded before the Great War), but eventually it gained a double meaning - both the organization and the place. And after the destruction of the Oil Rig, it refers to the organization alone. Some Fallout 2 examples:

  • "You're an illegal alien on Enclave territory." - random encounter patrolman
  • "The Enclave will rule the world!" - combat taunt
  • "Where is the Enclave main base located?" - clearly referring to the organization
  • Navarro characters are referred to as "Enclave technicians" etc.
  • "Enclave headquarters is located 175 miles off of the coast of California in the Pacific ocean. " - Navarro computer

It's clearly used to refer to both place and organization even in Fallout 2. And yes, several Van Buren developers did work on Fallout 2 (although not Sawyer). Ausir 23:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

While I am still not convinced by any of these arguments, since it appears you didn't fully read or understand what I said, I do somewhat agree that it isn't a huge issue. It is a naming problem that is rather small, and the problems it would cause and the work needed to fix all those naming issues probably wouldn't be worth working it out in the first place. Having said that, I think you don't quite understand the whole "progressive" look of the game. If you look at Fallout 2 in terms of what is said at what point in the main story, you will see how the proper naming is. Also, quotations by the Chosen One at a point in the story where he doesn't really understand his adversary are rather out of place.

Basically, I wanted to clear up the description of them. I feel saying the Enclave is "militaristic organization that claims to be a direct continuation of the pre-War United States government" is inaccurate. All evidence shows that the group you fight in Fallout 2 really are the descendants of the U.S. shadow government, with the disc found in the General's room in the Sierra Army Depot being obvious evidence of that, not to mention the lengthy history Richardson goes through about the Vaults. "Claim" just sounds like too weak a word for what is obviously fact. It should be bolded that they are the United States Government, or the United States Shadow Government, somewhere in the initial description. I will agree that flat out renaming the article was perhaps too much, but that little edit would make the article far more accurate without all the petty naming problems. Handlebars 00:52, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Sure, the "claim" part is valid. But the part where you claim that the Enclave only refers to the location and not to the organization in FO2 is not, since it does. Only one of the quotes is by the Chosen One (but spoken to an Enclave soldier who doesn't find it suspicious), the others are by members of the Enclave. If "Enclave" meant only the place, and not the organization, they wouldn't call the Oil Rig "Enclave main base" or "Enclave headquarters", but just "Enclave". Ausir 01:59, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I think reference to the Enclave as "ultra right wing" or "neoconservative" is sophmoric, simplistic, and just plain wrong. The Fallout world is a post-apocalyptic wasteland, so far divorced from our modern blue vs. red world that mechanically applying "liberal" or "conservative" labels is ridiculous.

Simplistic? Maybe. Sophomoric and "plain wrong"? Definitely not. There are so many similarities with their philosophy and neoconservative philosophy, particularly in regards to national power projection. When describing the Enclave to a Fallout layman, I often use the comparison "They're like the PNAC times ten". I don't remember specifics, but I also remember the FO2 devs intentionally making them analogous with the far right. Maybe someone more knowledgable on that can chime in...--MadCat221 01:39, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Since "conservative" means different things in different countries (and the term is also different politically-vs-ideologically, i.e., it can mean appealing to the middle-class to resisting change), I think it's the wrong term to use. We might want to explain it better, since untra-conservative to an American is going to be much different than an ultra-conservative from Denmark, Japan, or Ireland. I think we should avoid political labels period, it just gets in the way and overgeneralizes things. 98.198.83.12 02:24, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Vault experiment projects:

Well, I think that it could be both. Perhaps the government conceived the Vaults as a way to protect enough Americans to survive the war, but then some congressman who was really into experimental social science tacked on an amendment at the last minute that basically said, "vault conditions will be experimental to test human society." The main purpose of the vaults was still to preserve human stock, but the Enclave later lost faith in the ability of the Vaults to recolonize the U.S. because most vaults opened soon after the nuclear winter was over, perhaps thirteen years after the war (radiation levels were probably safe within a year of the war, in most places), and soon become corrupted by FEV, unexpectedly high radiation, and toxic waste:

  • LA Demo Vault: it's blown up by the time of Fallout 2, but I don't think anyone would make the case that the folks under the Cathedral were anything like pure humans.
  • Vault 8: its descendents, the Citizens of Vault City, are so mutated that they can no longer reproduce naturally, and must rely on artificial insemenation.
  • Vault 12: The Necropolis Vault. 'nuff said.
  • Vault 13: Okay, the people here are genetically pure humans
  • Vault 15: opened well before the Vault Dweller was kicked out of Vault 13. As such, it's a good bet that if the people of Arroyo have mutated because of the toxins, radiation, and FEV in the wastes enough to diverge significantly from the Vault 13 stock (at least in the Enclave's eyes), the Vault 15 descendents in NCR and among the raiders are considered mutants too.

The travels of the Vault Dweller and the Chosen One see five vaults. Of these, only one -- Vault 13 -- is attested by the Enclave to have genetically pure humans. One -- Vault 15 -- has descendents with no apparent mutations, just as the people of Arroyo have no apparent mutations, but it seems likely that they've mutated unacceptably (by the Enclave's high standards) as well. If the Enclave's experience is similar to that of the PCs, it isn't surprising, perhaps, that they're wary of relying on the vaults to colonize the Earth with "true humanity."

Since the Enclave no longer had faith in the Vaults as recepticals of "pure" humans, the vaults, originally perhaps intended 85% to preserve humanity and 15% as social experiments, became entirely social experiments in their eyes. After all, their mission to preserve humanity was moot since they or their descendents were no longer humans, so the Enclave might as well use them for something they're still somewhat useful for: seeing how groups of people react to their environment.

Remember that to the Enclave circa Fallout 2, the pre-war United States is as distant as the pre-Civil War United States is to us, at least in terms of chronology, even if the Enclave's technology has advanced only a little bit since the Great War (as opposed to everyone else, who has either fallen to below pre-war tech levels or stayed roughly at pre-war tech levels (the Brotherhood)). You have to assume that, while the Enclave was always a group of fanatical ideologues still stuck in a war that ended 164 years ago, the actual specifics of their policy probably changed greatly between 2077 and 2241. At first, they probably followed the original U.S. plan: wait a decade for the Vaults to open, record the Vault experiments and give them to future sociologists, then get to work rebuilding the U.S. with the Vault dwellers. Then various things got in the way of their plan (perhaps their plans depended on ferrying stuff between the oil platform and the mainland using the Poseidon oil tanker, but the occupation of San Francisco by the Shi obstructed that plan?). Then eventually, after the Enclavers who went to the oil platform as kids are wizened old men and women, and their children are ruling the Enclave, they find that FEV is all over the place and there's this dude called the Master who's turning people into mutants en masse. Crisis was averted, but after accessing the Vault Dweller's reports to the Overseer on his travels, they see the fates of Vault 15, 12, and the LA Demo Vault, and conclude that the Vaults didn't work as preservatives of pure humanity. They adjust their plans, and write the genetic stock of humans on the mainland as a loss. Still, they've read that there was more than one purpose to the Vaults: one was preserve humanity, another was social experimentation. They may not have preserved humanity, but they'll make interesting experiments anyway. Eventually 80 years later, this reevaluation of priorities turns into, "the Vaults were never about preserving humanity. They were just experiments." Jules


First of all, there was no nuclear winter in the Fallout world. As for the "no spaceships in Fallout rule that Spazmo mentions, I have yet to see it mentioned by any canon source. There's space travel in Fallout both according to Tim Cain (who made up the Vault Experiment stuff) and the Black Isle people (who made a space station in Van Buren and a shuttle in FO2). The "no space" assumption is probably based on the fact that planes were used to drop the nukes rather than missiles, but in my opinion that might be caused by the fuel shortage rather than by lack of technological means (it's not as if the US didn't have any rocket technology even before the WW2, which is before the Fallout world diverged from ours). Furthermore, the "spears of nuclear fire rained from the sky" line indicates that at least some rockets were used, although it doesn't mean that the majority of nukes were dropped from planes. And even if there was no equivalent of our space race in Fallout, it doesn't mean that the US Government couldn't have created some kind of starship (rememeber, SCIENCE!, not science) during the last few years before the War.
As for not including it in the Enclave article, we don't choose what is canon and what is not here. We simply state what appears in what games and what sources disagree. We're documenting the canon here, not creating it. Ausir 15:58, 8 Mar 2005 (GMT)

Spazmo Well, Ausir, you make a fair point in that we don't get to decide what canon is. We can't make sweeping changes to remake canon into what we'd (well, I'd) like, but in order for Vault Experiments to make ANY sense at all, some additions are necessary. Here's what I propose.

The US government actually did have some sort of spacecraft either ready to go or in construction before the war. But, as the bombs fell, the craft and its launching facility was destroyed, rendered inaccessible or somehow disabled such that the Government then had no choice but to form the Enclave on the Oil Rig.

Still, Vault Experiments are still wonky--IF all the Vaults are indeed experiments. I would suggest that there were many more control Vaults like V13, that most of the Vault Network was in fact intended to safeguard the American people so they could either repopulate North America or fly off to Alpha Centauri. However, as Jules suggests, over the decades, the Enclave leadership decides that with the unforeseen nationwide spread of the mutant FEV, the mainland survivors have been compromised. The Enclave knows what FEV is and what it can do, especially after seeing all the super mutants. Here, they decide to just forget about the whole thing and kill everyone.

I'm going to write it up this way for now and if we come to agree on something else, we'll change it. Thanks, guys. Spazmo 02:32, 9 Mar 2005 (GMT)

Where does it say that the Vault 8 inhabitants can't naturally reproduce? They artificially inseminate to keep their population at controllable levels, as it's made clear they didn't have much room to expand. 21:59, April 28 2009

[edit] Extermination of V13 inhabitants

Some ad vocem voice.
V13 inhabitants were US citizens and were genetically pure, so it could be difficult to explain on the legal way, why they were been killed . Probably Enclave is military dictatorship (despite of democracy mask) and some "Patriot-Antimutant Act", allowing such action, is possible (eg. vault dwellers are not humans and US citizens, but experiment objects, they are not killed, but there are part of some scientific procedures, etc.; dr. Charles Curling seems to be proud dr. Mengele's descendant). dotz

Martial law. Martial law. Martial law. 124.182.151.40 13:28, 29 March 2009 (UTC) Harlequin

[edit] Exchange with Salvatores

Subcject of desert transaction in New Reno is only drugs (chems) for laser weapons (pistols). Don't remember any information in the Fallout 2, that Salvatore trade slavers for Enclave purposes (even if Metzger overheas it). According to Bible Enclave verti-assault squads did slaver runs for Mariposa excavations workforce.

dotz 8.10.2007

[edit] Shadow government

Sawyer's RPG implies that the Enclave is a shadow government more in this sense (also from Wikipedia):

Conspiracy-theorists define shadow government as a secret government within the government. This secret government is the "real" government that controls the known government's basic course. The members' identities and meeting-halls of the secret shadow government are known by only a select few. This secret government is often portrayed as corrupt and having connections to the CIA, Illuminati, and Freemasons. It usually knows about and handles weird situations that are kept secret, such as the New World Order, the Apocalypse, aliens, the Antichrist, demons, human body- or soul harvesting, missing persons, experiments on people, etc. The shadow government is often funded by money that has been purposely "misplaced" within the government's system, or concealed behind government-contract projects that are false fronts for other undertakings.

As in, it was a power group within the US government before the War with connections to corporations like Poseidon and Vault-Tec. Ausir 01:10, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Old Aftermath

While the main base was destroyed, remnants of the Enclave forces might have survived in the Navarro base. The base may not have been able to maintain itself for more than a few months before needing to move on or change its operations. - what is the source of this information?--dotz 11:38, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Things to do

Do you remember story behind similarity of the Enclave symbol at the entrance level floor (mirror double body sculpture) to Vault City symbol (one body) present over Vault door and as the day pass background?--dotz 22:10, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mariposa

DDS: According to Chris Avellone, (I'll list the exact document if I can find it, I believe it to be one of the Fallout Bibles, maybe 0) the Super Mutants at Mariposa did not overthrow their Enclave masters and take their armaments. Instead, with the help of Melchior, a Magician from Redding who retained his intelligence even after being exposed to FEV, the Mutant slaves had in fact been hiding weapons from the Enclave.

It is Fallout Bible. It is right. However - 10 Enclave Patrolmen killed in Mariposa had incomplete equipment, small weapons only, less then 10 pieces. Compare their equpiment eg. with Sgt. Granite's squad (both were from ECC probably). Mutants could find flammers during excavations. See: Example of field operation - Mariposa Military Base excavation--dotz 21:05, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] This is wrong

It is not OK to quote all over the wiki FOT (and others) as semi-canon and then at the same time quote Sawyer's PnP as de-facto canon. Please someone re-edit this page and move *everything* from Sawyer's PnP into its own paragraph which clearly identifies it as Sawyer's homemade PnP. Sawyer is a great rules expert but his Fallout canon is not on the same level. I surely (and other players as well) don't remember seeing Enclave's flag, Alpha Centauri flight plan, etc. in FO2 and leaving it as such only discredits this great webpage and even greater game.

85.10.50.92 09:47, 16 March 2008 (UTC)hexer

The Alpha Centauri flight plan is from Tim Cain, not from Sawyer. I can't find it right now, but he posted it at some forum. Ausir 23:01, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, hexer, you are right, but I can't see anybody, who would like to reedit it.--dotz 09:31, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for quick replies. It doesn't come to that am I right or am I wrong or if flight plan was Cain's or Sawyer's wet dream. I believe we don't need another "Star Wars canonization" here. I just wanted to point out that different sources have been mixed and presented as canon while the page otherwise clearly identifies and separates such paragraphs in other topics. Keep up the great work! (if no one reedits the page maybe I will) --85.10.50.235 12:08, 17 March 2008 (UTC)hexer
"The Alpha Centauri flight plan is from Tim Cain, not from Sawyer. I can't find it right now, but he posted it at some forum." - That will not do. I can't find it either, so... we're just going to keep info in here because it was "on some place we can't find or can't remember where it was?" - 74.5.111.155 09:29, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Possible aftermath facts

  • According one of Fallout 2 endfilms Enclave survivors would join to the NCR ranks - after 12 years eventually, if there was military rule.
  • It was posible also that survived:
    • Camp Navarro staff,
    • Enclave Patrols as well as sgt. Granite’s,
  • according to Van Buren were planned:

--dotz 05:16, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Enclave symbol

Is it officially in Fallout 3 as it says? Personally, I hope not since it looks somewhat amateurish and uninspired. A circle of stars and a bold E (in Arial font)?

--hexer

It's a circle of stars and a bold E, but the version on this page is fan-made. Here's the official one: enclavewa1.jpg Ausir 12:44, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

sorry, I wasn't dissing the fan-made symbol, it's well made actually. I was commenting on the the actual symbol who could use a bit work itself. it reminds me somewhat of EU flag with an euro in the middle p.s. thanks for that invitation to sign up --HEXER 13:20, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Autumn

Who said he was Colonel in 2241? His rank is proper for year 2277.--dotz 22:41, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re-organization

See: Forum:Organization of Enclave articles for the discussion of this and related articles. Ausir 23:03, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Enclave Points of Interest map

In Fo2, the map in the conference room has several blinking spots all over the world. I'm looking them up and this is what I have so far:

  1. Paris, France
  2. Szczecin, Poland (?) - Penemuende - Werner von Braun? :)--dotz 22:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
  3. Athens, Greece
  4. Moscow, Russia
  5. Al Uqaylyah, Libia (???)
  6. Tabuk and Al'Isawiyah, Saudi Arabia (?)
  7. Akra, Ghana (?)
  8. Benguela, Angole (?)
  9. Tokio, Japan
  10. Hanoi, Vietnam (?)
  11. Bombai and New Delhi (?), India
  12. Darwin (?), Sydney and a third, unidentified location in Australia
  13. Santiago, Chile (?)
  14. La Paz and Santa Cruz (?), Boliwia
  15. Brasilia, Brasil
  16. Santiago, Panama (???)
  17. Mexico City, Mexico
  18. Panama City,Florida (??)
  19. Fort Sumter, South Carolina (?)
  20. Atlanta, Georgia - southern accent CB chat in Fallout 3--dotz 22:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
  21. Something between Minnesota and North Dakota
  22. Seattle, Washington - Boeing--dotz 22:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
  23. Los Angeles, California - core region, VaulTech Vault--dotz 22:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
  24. Yuma, Arizone (Yuma Flats?)
  25. Anchorage, Alaska - USAF remnants?--dotz 22:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
  26. Quebec, Canada - annexed--dotz 22:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

That's what I have so far. Any significance to that? Shaur M. S. Grizlin 17:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Sometimes your work is priceless. I've marked capitals with bold (11 capitals within 26 places, France, Russia, Japan and India are real world powers, there are quite a few capital cities in Latin America, 9 places belonged to USA + influenced Mexico and Panama).--dotz 21:48, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

In March 2077, prepared for a nuclear or biological attack from China, the President and) the Enclave retreated to remote sections around the globe.--dotz 22:25, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Hold on,anchorage is there,wasnt that the place that the chinese invaded?Hmmmm,interesting,perhaps the U.S goverment wasnt being completly clear on "operation:anchorage"

Think they could be places of military presence/importance in the year 2077? I mean, who knows how Vietnam turned out in the Divergence? Possibilities

  1. Last [completely] free country before Soviet sphere of influence
  2. 1st major country within Soviet sphere of influence
  3. US supported anti-communist government, maybe we had military forces there.
  4. Capital of USSR
  5. We bombed Libya in the 80s (I think)
  6. Oil?
  7.  ?
  8.  ?
  9. Ally against China
  10. Maybe we conquered it during Vietnam and established a base there
  11.  ?
  12.  ?
  13. CIA sponsored coup in 1973
  14. Fought Commie Guerillas there (In 60s?)
  15.  ?
  16. Any US Base/Panama Canal - Panama would be an interesting place to have as a setting for a Fallout game
  17. We invaded Mexico in the divergence, probably had to station troops in the capital
  18.  ?
  19.  ?Maybe it is an important fort?
  20.  ?
  21.  ?
  22.  ?
  23.  ?
  24.  ?
  25. Garrison post-Operation
  26. annexed````MainMeister

Atlanta is the site of the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), a major biological research facility - including research into countering biological weapons. 24.98.211.134 13:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Plz reintegrate somewhere.

Data protection

Data protection precedures could be connected with pre-war New Amended Espionage Act, 50 U.S.C., 31 and 32 (mentioned at Fallout manual) 

   * information could be classified by order of the President,
   * "need to know" rule, eg. information about the oil rig location or authorisation before obtaining the vertibird plans form maintenance,
   * Camp Navarro main computer access restrictions,
   * the special operations on the mainland were secret (Horrigan's operations, New Reno operations).

[edit] Procedures seen on the oil rig 

   * AAR (at least at verti-assault unit)
   * clearance for some sections,
   * containment procedues.

[edit] Procedures seen at Camp Navarro [edit] FOB security procedures

FOB security procedures were connected probably with security act 9837-334-27A: 

   * FOB is held by Base Commander; his office is off limits to all personnel,
   * a call from base security, when the tanker passkey is suspected to get into wrong hands; then it should be locked up,
   * security detail secures the tanker passkey, after his orders are checked by Base Commander's door guard,
   * the duty officer has to contact Base Commander once FOB is secured.

[edit] Alert

Eg. in case of infiltration by intruders. Unknown persons identification papers control. 

   * Sound the alarm!
   * Seal the base!
   * Secure all stations!
   * Go code red!
   * Get the backups started.
   * Shut down all classified operations.
   * Secure the system and enable all security passwords.
   * Pointy end with the laser diode goes toward the enemy. Then pull trigger. (technicians and mechanics)

[edit] Other procedures 

   * court martial, eg. in case of treason (disobeying a direct order of a superior officer); it can be changed to immidiate execution during alert,
   * soldier identification papers should be carried at all times (eg. checked by officers during alert).

Stripping and reintegrating. Shaur M. S. Grizlin 18:07, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Possible Origin of Enclave Name?

In my geography class I read about a type of country/city/territory called an enclave. It is basically a territory which is completely bordered by another territory (as Lesotho is surrounded by South Africa). This sounds plausible as an origin of the name in the game. In a more abstract sense the enclave in fallout match this description as they are essentially a 'government within a government'? This may have been brought up before I don't know as i'm new to fallout but it seems plausible and maybe worth mentioning in the article in the trivia or something. Wikipedia Article--Enclave: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclave 84.173.106.252 08:31, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

The noun "Enclave", I believe, simply means a remnant, or hideout of something. So, it's fairly clear that the Enclave is the remnant of the U.S. Government. Vault122 20:31, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

[[1]] Definition of the word "Enclave" for you.
en·clave (ahn klAv) (Wiki won't copy pronunciation, wrote it out best I could) n. 1. A country or part of a country lying wholly within the boundaries of another. 2. A distinctly bounded area enclosed within a larger unit: ethnic enclaves in a large city. [French, from Old French enclaver, to enclose, from Vulgar Latin *inclvre : Latin in-, in; see en-1 + Latin clvis, key.]
--Killchain 06:19, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I think that the enclave are the decents of the congressmen ceo the power that sort of thing are just kids of rich kids they could have come from the southern part of america. biomage

[edit] Reason for end of the world:

Well, there is the theory that AI did it cause it got depressed. Also, maybe the enclave wanted to do the Vault test. While signaling, there was an error and the computers behind the military believed that the US was under attack. As a result, they began launching nukes. Just a possibility.

As a result the Enclave would've known relatively ahead of time, giving the top officials a chance to escape. Anyone have any evidence to this?````MainMeister

-I think Vault 101 was closed before the bombs dropped. This could show they were testing.

-It may also explain why some of the "tests" seem so crazy, like why release psychoactive drugs into one of the only safe havens left on the planet. Maybe they expected outside support would be available.````MainMeister

[edit] oilrig radiation

if the Pitt has radiation problems and according to the fallout bible nuclear bombs were dropped everywere how does it come that the oilrig wasn't heavily radiated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by halfgod (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Everywhere simply refers to the landmass. Dropping bombs into the ocean, and ocean targets, would have been a costly effort, and >99% of them would have been wasted-DragonJTSLeave me a message 01:25, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
^What I was about to say. The oil rig was in the middle of the ocean and never bombed (if it was, the Enclave would have been destroyed from the beginning). Air and sea currents would have swept away any initial radiation from the War which had somehow drifted out from the mainland; oceans are too vast and deep for a few bombs to contaminate fully, and no one would bomb an empty ocean. The Pitt on the other hand was at the junction of three land-based rivers. The radioactive land would continually contaminate the river water year after year, since the sources would be land-based springs and snow melt from mountains, all of which would be carrying radiation from the ground. -- Commdor /{Talk} 01:26, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
In reality, if the number of bombs dropped had numbered only a few, the oceans would have been irradiated as well, however, only if they were near the landmasses would they receive a large "dose." Still, Oceanography will teach you that the currents don't simply remove things, they move them around. The oceans would ahve been irradiated within a short period of time. 74.5.111.155 09:26, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Lots of Speculation

Specifically in the section of the reasons behind the creation of the Vaults. It's speculation. The Space Ship idea was from Van Buren, which is considered noncanon. "Also mentioned in the Bloomfield Space Center design document for Van Buren: In November, 2076, the Enclave seized control of Bloomfield Space Center. They knew nuclear war was just around the corner, so they tried to refit the Hermes-13 and convert it into a vehicle that would take selected personnel (mainly themselves) off-planet, destination yet to be determined." I'm going to make note of it in the article. 74.5.111.155 09:03, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I'd also like to add, "The purpose of the Vault experiments was to help prepare the Enclave for either re-colonizing Earth or colonizing another planet if Earth turned out to be uninhabitable by unmutated humans." is what the Vault article states. Now, If we go by that, it seems to state that the spaceship idea wasn't the primary idea at all, just one of the possibilities. There's still no good source for any of this, and I don't think "I heard from Tom" or "I got the information from Mr. X" does any good. 74.5.111.155 09:22, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Since there are no other available explanations, we go with what the article says, unless there is a better reason released to us. That Furry Bastard 11:07, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

The spaceship idea was not originally from Van Buren, it was Tim Cain's original intent that eventually wasn't mentioned in-game, but was not contradicted, and then was elaborated upon in Van Buren. Ausir 23:25, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
I'd have to agree with both parties on this one to an extent. Even though we still do not have a source for it other than it being on a forum somewhere, I guess we could use it as canon "fodder." I mean, I think I'm not alone in thinking that the spaceship idea is stupid as hell, but at the same time, it's different and it's canon (possibly). However, we should be cautious in the words we pick from the developers and creators. For instance, Metzen and the devleopers of the Warcraft Universe has said things that never made it into Warcraft canon (or said things that would never make canon and eventually did, etc). That's just an easy example though. Things get reconned all the time and just because something is said by a developer doesn't mean that it's straight canon, nor does it mean that it should be ignored. For all we known, what is in-game is the only canon and what is outside is just what the developers want rather than what is canon. I know his comment is not contradicted, but it was never backed up either (Van Buren does not count, it was an incomplete game that was abandoned and is not considered canon, so whether or not the game backed anything up, it means nothing). 98.198.83.12 02:48, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Enclave Return

Isn't it highly likely that the Enclave will re-group again and re-emerge, given time? Even with Broken Steel, there are still so many scattered Enclave encampments in the Capital Wasteland (added to that, the Vertibirds that managed to escape Adams Air Force Base during the fighting), not to mention all of the isolated bases in the Western and Central United States. It's plausible that a high-ranking officer could, with long-range radio equipment, muster a sizable force.

--117649AnnihilativeRepentance 02:21, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Hopefully not. They've been overdone already. Ausir(talk) 02:37, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

They will. Not only is it a plot point, but people seem to hate "military oriented government." It sells games. --Killchain 22:14, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

I certainly hope to see the Enclave return, whether as a ragtag militant band trying to cling to the leftovers of an old administration, or as another full-scale force to be reckoned with. Their higher ranking officers do have some nifty trench coats, after all. Ronin 01:47, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

The Enclave as a major force needs to FOAD. 15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 08:02, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't want to see them again. And no more BoS splinter factions. There are... what? 5 of them now? Spoon 08:05, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Things are getting a little overdone in Fallout but people don't remove something that works. Fallout is beginning to follow a specific formula that inovlves the BoS, Super Mutants and The Enclave so I expect them to be back like a B-Rated Horror enemy.--KnightNapier 22:36, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Quite to the contrary, people DO remove something that works and replace it with something that works. See, it's called creativity, something that Bethesda has long since lost. Fallout was never about a tried-and-true formula, it was never about repetitive enemies OR B-rated horror enemies. It was about exploring the themes of the post-nuclear world. You'd know that, if you paid attention.
Fallout had supermutant Unity as the enemy, exploring the classic theme of mutations with a twist, where there exists a man who believes he can bring peace to the wastelands through elevating everyone to a master race level. Everyone who wanted it. Fallout 2 was about the remnants of the US government, the theme it explored was about how people with a pre-War mentality would react to a post-nuclear society. Fallout 3 (Van Buren) was to be about a scientist seeking to reshape the wastelands, it explored various opposing themes by juxtaposing them - faith vs. reason (Jericho), nature vs. technology (Twin Mothers), hell, it even included pre-War scientists turned ghouls, standing in direct opposition to the Enclave, which was pre-War mentality in humans. The main enemy was Victor Presper, who sought to reshape the wastelands into a new, succesful civilization, rather than the wreck it became when NCR waged war with the Brotherhood. Fallout 4 was to be about Caesar's Legion...
So please, recognize the bullshit when you see it and speak against it. Don't approve of it by staying idle, accepting that people don't remove something that works. Fuck that. Demand creativity in your entertainment. Demand innovation. That's what will set you apart from the crowds of mindless sheep clawing away at their controllers all night to get a kewl gun and shoot mutants with miniature nukes.
Don't insult your intelligence.
15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 22:46, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes I understand what you're saying and I agree. Interplay knew what to do with keeping the series fresh with Master, Enclave and Presper being the villians but Bethesda lost the loving feeling. They really did some major changes to Fallout 3 which nearly completely removes it from normal canon. At least Bethesda kept the damage to a minimum by moving coasts for this "Oblivion Mod" as one of my friends refered to it. Bethesda did a good job but what they did was pretty much do Fallout Episode III: The Enclave Strikes Back. Their plan was very similar: use the F.E.V. to kill all the "mutants". They put it in a different First Person wrapper but the core was the same. I could create a better villianous group and I do know creativity all to well.

[edit] Shame

In fallout 3 you do so much for the Enclave but they're still your enemies...same with talon company (but thats for they're page) unlike Fallout 2 you can't join them...come on your a pure human from Vault 101...that should be enough...I tried my best...still I have to kill soldiers...even blowing up the Citidel isn't good enough -_- factions would make Fallout 3 so much better Onikage01 20:58, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

You were born outside of the vault. And you couldn't join the Enclave in Fallout 2. Get your facts straight. Spoon 21:08, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

you were still raised in Vault 101...surely thats enough? or is the background radiation that strong? cause that stop Enclave Soldiers operating...as they're outside...so why not Lone Wanderer..sorry i was pretty sure you could join them in Fallout 2 misleading Youtube Videos..i fine Fallout 2 pretty difficult to gip myself Onikage01 11:04, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, you weren't a 'Pure Human', as your parents were born outside the vault, and would have tiny mutations themselves. And in regards to joining the Enclave in Fallout 2, you sneak in the base, pretending to be part of the Enclave. Spoon 11:08, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

This is a textbook example of how youtube and google ruin gaming.In Mortal Kombat noobs learn to be cheap from google and youtube and people think they have an authority on a game cuz they saw a youtube video of it... The Dumpster behind KFC 11:10, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

sorry but my point still stands...I know that you parents had mutations.. as did horrigan...(mass mutation btw) so why wouldn't the wanderer be allowed even if it wasn't permanent Onikage01 23:00, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

In an open world like Fallout 3 it wouldn't be beyond possability that you can find the nearest Enclave Recruitment Station and sign up. However I don't think Bethesda was thinking that way as they are clearly, from the dogmatic narrow view of the Brotherhood of Steel, the Enclave are the bad guys and the wanderer does have a beef with them. I'm not an expert on Fallout by any means but the Enclave only like "Pure Humans" those born in Vaults or in their facilities. This is really kind of stupid if you ask me as people like the wanderer, who were exposed to mutagens for such a short time, would have very few mutations. It's probably just a choice that Bethesda made. Although Broken Steel's name would have been a lot different if you were defending the Crawler...KnightNapier 01:55, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Enclave has no recruitment stations. It doesn't recruit mutated outsiders, it either aims to kill them (Richardson's) or rule them (Autumn's), there is no in between. Besides, you'd only be a grunt, if you got hired, with no ability to be promoted to a higher rank. I'd have loved to see the Enclave become something more than villains to shoot, though.
As for the Lone Wanderer, both of his parents were mutated outsiders. He wasn't exposed to mutagens for a short time, he was a mutant from the get go. 15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 06:22, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
point taken...maybe in a future game you'd be able to pick factions... raider...Talon company...Regulator, Envlave, BOS...hmmm, I gots me an idea Onikage01 12:18, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Members of the "Enclave"

I have not fully played Fallout 1 or 2 but have tried to read up as much as I could prior to writing this. What puzzles me is, the organization claims to want to rid the world of mutants or tainted people, but since "prime normals" protected by their working vaults, are so few, where do they get the innumerous and supposedly "pure" members to fill their ranks? How are any of the soldiers, or Col. Autumn pure? They were not vault inhabitants, so surely they have received some measure of effect from 200 years of an irradiated world, Even President Richardson and his soldiers, would have had to have been effected. It would seem to me, that the story's main antagonist is entirely comprised of the very people it proports to be trying to eliminate.

The Oil Rig is a sealed unit and for the duration of the cleansing the members of the Enclave would retreat to safe shelters. Besides, the Enclave's hypocritical and right wing, it's not like they're perfectly logical or sayne. 15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 22:48, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
Because we know all about their politics, right? Anyways... to answer your question, we don't know. We know the Enclave's rig was sealed shut. However, by "pure," they probably don't mean that in the strictest sense. Autumn, Richardson, and the rest of the Enclave have gotten radiation, of course, but they are/were definitely more pure than the natives of the Capital Wasteland and the West Coast. 98.198.83.12 06:41, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Politics of the Enclave

Eugenics and social immobility tend to be left wing, the only right wing element demonstrated by the Enclave is dedication to military technology. I think it would be more appropriate to describe them as authoritarian rather than ultra-right wing. --OvaltinePatrol 23:04, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

Because Hitler was completely, totally left wing. Riiight. 15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 07:03, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
The only really evil right-wing thing the Enclave does in FO2 is trade advanced firearms to the Salvatores, that's a classic part of the whole nation building/colonialism/military adventurism thing that is associated with evil right-wing antics. But that's a really small part of what they're doing, their main plans involve social engineering and eugenics: the Vault Experiment, the Deathclaw experiment, and genocide. Science and social engineering used in such a way would be evil left-wing. --OvaltinePatrol 05:08, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
I agree with the Ovaltine guy. We do not know the political affiliations of the Enclave. We don't know their position on abortion, taxes, private vs public, marriage, etc. To say right-wing is wrong, to say left-wing is wrong. However, the eugenics experiments point strongly left-wing. And Hitler wasn't just right-wing OR left wing, his delusional crap was all over the spectrum. Authoritarian seems dead on. It neither implies that they are left-wing or right-wing. I know WikiAnswers is a really bad way to get an example, but http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_a_liberal_and_a_conservative shows the difference. If we look at that, the Enclave are definitely liberal. But if we look at http://www.strike-the-root.com/4/weebies/weebies1.html we can probably point them to the conservative side (more or less). That's a bad example as well, but you see my point? We don't know enough about the Enclave to say that they are Liberal or Conservative. We could argue that they are conservative or liberal all day and get nowhere. 98.198.83.12 06:32, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
Wow, talk about butthurt American conserves. Enclave is obviously right-wing, from it's president through Daniel "Quayle" Bird down to its approach to everyone. It's even more obvious in the context of post-911 America. 11px-Naglowaa_se.gif Tagaziel (call!) 08:10, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
How is it more obvious in the context of post 9/11 America? I missed the part where right-wingers announced their plans to wipe out most of the world. It's just a fact that institutional and so-called scientific racism have their roots in the left-wing in America. I'm not even calling the Enclave left-wing, though their ideology supports that label, because as I've mentioned they also make use of a number of insidious tactics that play towards right-winger status. Of course you don't actually care, you've demonstrated that by using one of the two most dismissive expressions of online conversations. --OvaltinePatrol 00:22, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

Actually, they identify themselves as Republicans in Fallout 2. Ausir(talk) 00:25, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not saying that they don't self-identify as Republican. What I'm trying to communicate is that the Enclave is an apolitical entity. Between the Fallout Bible and some of the stuff in Fallout 2 (especially the conversation with the Enclave operator on Poseidonet), it's clear that the Enclave isn't really a Republic-style government. Their internal politics resemble a corporation full of sinecures and their external politics are "kill everyone," that doesn't resemble left or right wing politics at all. --OvaltinePatrol 02:57, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps post-war. Pre-war, their ideology bears more than a passing resemblance to the ideology of the PNAC. --MadCat221 05:09, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Similaritys to Star Wars! by toasted

Inside of raven rock and inside of the death are alarmingly interesting. for instance the floor is elevated about two to three feet a steel crosshatched floor. Both Darth vader and Coloniel Autumns rebelled against their leaders like Darth sidious and President John Henry Eden, But for different purposes. Another similarity is the way there troops travel on planets. For instance the Tie Fighter Resembles the Enclave Helibird. The Way the Enclave dress is similar to the way the leaders, and pilots of the Empire dress. Robert Gutierrez 9-21-09 (A.K.A. Burntoast)

I know what you mean. The faceless visage of their soldiers is similar to that of the Stormtroopers as is their use of power armor and weapons. (although technically Stormtrooper armor isn't powered) Also the Enclave's Officer is just a color off from being Imperial. I'm surpirised you don't anyone ask "Where are you taking this, thing" in Raven Rock, seeing how the Enclave view Wastelanders.--KnightNapier 20:06, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Problems with the FEV Solution

This may be nitpicking but I don't know how well the FEV would have worked on killing off only "mutants" and keeping pure humans intact. Knowing a bit about biology, I know that our different traits like hair and eye color are the results of genetic mutations. In short, we're all mutants, including the Enclave. Also radiation exposure wouldn't be enough to cause massive genetic mutation during the course of most people's lives. It may be enough to cause cancer no doubt but most people are far from Ghouls. (well, except for the people of the Pitt but that's something different)

Is it actually possible to tailor a virus to attack specific groups of people? Probably with genetic engineering, but the Enclave are talking about wiping out a wide variety of people. Viruses don't really work like that. I don't want to got hot and heavy but viral particles attach onto the receptor sites of a cell and then through the lysis cycle, insert their DNA into the cell causing the cell to begin to produce new viruses. The cell then ruptures and more viruses are released. Mutation to the DNA wouldn't drastically alter the receptor sites otherwise the cell wouldn't be able to do anything well.

Sure their forces may be "pure" at birth but their exposure of the outside world makes them no worst of than the PC or BOS who are affected by the FEV. I think that this plan, should it ever have happened (which does depending on the PC's actions) would have backfired bigtime. If they did airborne disperal, no big deal, everyone would have been dead and the virus would be too as the particles wouldn't have enough hosts to reproduce. Hovever infecting the water supply would mean that the virus would be much harder to keep track up and this would be something that would bite them in the ass later.--KnightNapier 20:18, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Spoilers ahead: You're talking about the FO3 version of the plan I take it. In FO2, being a "pure strain," human did not offer any protection in and of itself, but the Enclave had created an inoculation. Perhaps all of the Enclave forces based on the East Coast had already been inoculated. Eden was liar after all, his radio addresses talked about his plans to help the wastelanders when he intended to kill them, he probably intended the Lone Wanderer to die as well. --OvaltinePatrol 17:40, September 30, 2009 (UTC)
I didn't think of it like that but that places Eden with Hitler and Skynet: unfeeling beings (or machines) who just want their own goals to be completed and they don't care who gets hurt as long as they benefit. It makes you almost feel sorry for the Enclave Soldiers the same way you could feel sorry for the Germans during WWII as they were used in a similar manners. Being one who loves my country (America) I'm appaled at what it transformed into after the end of the world. Perhaps Bethesda meant this but why does America always have to be the villian?
Because it's the self appointed World Sheriff and us subhumans don't take too kindly to that. 11px-Naglowaa_se.gif Tagaziel (call!) 20:10, September 30, 2009 (UTC)
Different strokes for different folks I guess.--KnightNapier 20:19, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

--When I played through fo3, I didn't get the impression that eden wanted to wipe out tainted humans. Is it possible that someone who wrote that misinterpreted based on the plots of previous fo games? He pretty much just says ghouls and supermutants. If someone could provide some quotes from Eden that make clear his position, it would help.

Also, it's claimed if you drink 4 bottles of pure water after putting in the FEV you will die, is someone just making that up? Seems unlikely. And if it's true, does everyone else die in front of your face while playing the game for long enough?-- unknown user

That means you weren't paying attention while playing and suck at reading comprehension. 11px-Naglowaa_se.gif Tagaziel (call!) 18:14, October 3, 2009 (UTC)
If anyone thought that a computer would be compassionate about not killing "mutants" then it's no wonder why we thought that giving Hitler land would shut him up. Eden is like any dictator in the world, you don't watch what the front hand is doing but what the back one is. Hitler said that he would be fine with Austria then the Sudatenland (I probably killed the spelling). But guess what happened? he lied and took over Poland, France, Denmark and a few other contries that I forget right now. Eden is simply an Enclave ZAX that learned to think. He's still a computer at his core and will go throughout his programming which is wastelanders are mutants and mutants must be killed. He thinks the same way Hitler did and his simple message of "let's rebuild" was answered by the niave for his puppets. If the Lone Wanderer bought this propaganda he'd either have to be Forrest Gump or Satan incarnate. Never listen to anyone who sends in soldiers to kill civilians.
If you want some proof, there are several Enclave camps throughout the Capital Wasteland where the Enclave have killed wastelanders both ghoulish and normal humans. The FEV was the halbringer of the apocayplse (bad choice of wording I know) and you are the wielder of that weapon. The FEV kills anyone without a "pure" set of DNA, which is technically impossible unless the FEV has been "trained" (modified with genetic engineering) to kill certain people. This also includes the Lone Wanderer as he's not a vault dweller but a wastelander by birth. The FEV water does deal nasty side effects slowly sapping your Strength and I believe Intelligence as the virus is destroying your body. Drink too many (which isn't a lot; FEV does its job well) and you've just died an ironic death.
People are constantly dying in Megaton, Rivet City and Underworld (if you convinced Griffon to sell Aqua "Killa" (my name for tainted Pura) have a bunch of people in the clinics dying from FEV exposure. While they may not drop over dead during the game they eventually will. Need more proof?--KnightNapier 23:07, October 3, 2009 (UTC)
Removed the dumbass and hostile response. I don't have the expansion, I just found it unlikely. I'll re-iterate, quotes from Eden might clear it up, I'm sure someone has them handy somewhere. unknown user
Sadly I don't have those (Eden quotes) but Eden wants these people killed. In the page for John Henry Eden, the article mentions that Autumn has let "humanity cloud his judgement" in not putting the FEV into the water supply.Eden's just a smart AI program created by the Enclave. He'll continue to follow the Enclave's objective (kill all mutants) as he doesn't have emotion. Not all the information that was deleted was hostile or dumbass. It is very important to note that the Enclave have been rounding up and killing human and ghoul wastelanders. Doesn't that kind of prove that Eden's double speaking?
Let me reiterate, lot of people (including the main character as he/she wasn't a vault dweller) have subtle mutations due to over 150 years (rough estimation of the number of years after the Vaults left out and the time it takes for the area to "cool down") of constant radiaition exposure. Radiation damages DNA which then prevents to work correctly. These are what we know as mutations. The Enclave, thanks to their careful planning, managed to conceal themseles from the radiation (They were on a oil rig until 2241, well a little earlier but still you get the point) like vault dwellers (which 101 is the only remaining clean one) while everyone else cooked. The mutations are sublte but still there and, while horrific, the Enclave want all of these people dead so the "true humans" can take back the world. It may seem unlikely to some and unimaginable to all but let's not forget that we do have the word 'genocide' in our language. That counts for something.
Don't believe everything you read or see. If someone says one thing go to the person who says the other and then, somewhere between the bias and propagnda, lies the naked holy truth. There's a reason why smooth talkers get ahead and that's because no one questions them. Eden's the same way (well he also has intelligence higher an any human but that's besides the point) and he'll tell you anything you want to hear in order to get you to do what he wants. It's the Pied Piper effect.--KnightNapier 01:55, October 4, 2009 (UTC)
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