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Concerning Fallout Wiki Experiments Project: It's always been my opinion that this is really very, very stupid. It doesn't make any sense. First off, the alleged eventual goal of it all--to test the capacity of Americans to live in difficult conditions for a long time to see if they could make it to Alpha Centauri in colony ships--is bunk, because there's no spaceships in Fallout. Second, even if you accept spaceships, it still doesn't make sense because in performing the experiments, the government has likely killed most of Fallout Wiki Dwellers, leaving hardly anyone left to actually go to Alpha Centauri or anyplace else. Third, it's just totally unnecessary. The plot of Fallout 2 works just fine without something as ridiculous as Vault Experiments coming along to complicate things. The Enclave controls the Vaults because the Vaults belong to the US Goverment. That's why they could send the all-clear to Vault 8 and could open up Vault 13 to grab its inhabitants. The Enclave wants to cleanse the mainland to retake it. It makes more sense for the Enclave to be interested in keeping Fallout Wiki Dwellers ALIVE if they want to have anyone to recolonize America. There's just no need for Vault Experiments which is why I suggest that they never happened at all. I say they should be stricken from Fallout canon and thus not included in the Enclave article. Spazmo

Haha, wow. I mean my God. How ignorant can you get.

First off, it "dosn't make any sense" because there are no spaceships in Fallout? Are you that fucking moronic? Why would a huge project, designed to transport massive amounts of humans to another part of this universe "not make sense" because the projects spaceship was not in certain areas of a post-apocalyptic souther California?

Second, that you were ignorant to ignore the first point it seems you're even more ignorant when it comes to bitching about the vault experiment itself! The people of the vaults obviously would NOT be going. They are designed to test and record the human condition in various conditions that would be similiar or they would face on the trip. Did you not notice the vaults that were expect to FAIL? Did you think they would just bring the corpses? You moron.

Third, that the "plot would work fine" without the fact of the vault experiment being known has NOTHING to do with it's validity. There were many things, even towns, that we could have gone without and not touched the plot. Good God, you ignorant bloody idiot.

Fourth, the all clear of Vault 8 was PART of the experiment. So you're point is, as before, completely invalid.

Fifth, they want to take back the mainland. The genetic purity of their "taking back" ideology came about AFTER they realised everyone on the mainland was "mutated". So since they didn't have a time machine, they had no way of knowing. In which case they DID make use of the controlled vaults and vault dwellers, as experiments. Experiments in a project that would allow them to retake the mainland with almost no use of manpower. Read.

Next time, just think before you even remotely type and realize how much you need to shut the fuck up. 124.182.151.40 Harlequin

I like how you guys handled that like adults (note the sarcasm)... 74.5.111.155 08:28, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I would like to mention to everyone that the "Vault Experiments" that were used in Fallout 3 based on cut material from Fallout 2. I said cut, as in "not included in the original storyline." --Killchain 22:16, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Bullshit. Did you actually play Fallout 2 and talk to president Richardson? 15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 22:24, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
I sat down today, hacked the piss out of a character and went and spoke to Richardson. You were right, I was wrong. Still begs the question why a government organization would specifically build something like the Vaults in the hope of a nuclear armageddon. Killchain 05:52, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
They were planning to go to a different planet, it seems the experiments aimed to provide input as to how to arrange the ship so that the passengers survive the trip, rather than kill each other out of boredom. 15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 10:06, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
If it was put into Fallout 3 based on cut material, than the Fallout 3 material is canon regardless of what it is from. Anyways, we cant be sure that what Richardson said was completely true or not. Curling even stated that the point of the Enclave was the reestablishment of the human race upon the continental United States. 98.198.83.12 02:10, September 7, 2009 (UTC)


This article should be renamed, and misunderstandings cleared up Edit

I have to say, as I understand it, I think everyone's labeling of "The Enclave" in this wiki is completely wrong. In Fallout 2, "The Enclave" didn't appear to refer to the actual US Government remnant itself, but rather it referred to the Oil Rig in the pacific. It makes sense. In geography, an Enclave is an area of a country that is completely surrounded by the area of another country and does not connect in any way to its larger portion. In this sense, the oil rig is the "Enclave" of the US Government, its one base of operations that is separated from the rest of the irradiated and destroyed United States by virtue of the ocean, but at the same time sits in the middle of that world and is surrounded by the potential hostility of that world.

If you notice in Fallout 2, all "Enclave" members use the phrase "The Enclave" to refer to the oil rig. Navarro soldiers say they liked their post on The Enclave better since it wasn't so separated. Navarro mechanics in the hangars talk about new troops coming over from "The Enclave" via vertibird. In perhaps the biggest and most obvious explanation, the captain of the PMV Valdez, an "Enclave" deserter, says that with the right programming you can make the tanker take you to "The Enclave."

In Fallout 2, the only people who refer to The Enclave as an organization are people who are not in it and thus do not understand it. Metzger and The Brotherhood both mention picking up scattered radio transmissions talking about "The Enclave," which was probably just soldiers talking about their home base over the radio and outsiders misunderstanding it. I'm sure the Chosen One would have cleared it up on his return, explaining that he destroyed the remnants of the US Government on board their base, the Enclave. Unless of course it is canon that he has IN<4. Indeed, talking to Lynette or other smart people after you have destroyed the oil rig will have them talk about the United States Government being the antagonist you defeated, not the Enclave.

Sooo, in conclusion, in Fallout 2 there is no evidence whatsoever that "The Enclave" refers to the actual organization itself. The organization is simply called the United States Government, the United States of America, etc. I think it was a Fallout 3 bastardization/misunderstanding of the whole thing that kind of messed it up and popularized the wrong terminology. It may seem like a small thing to pick at, but mislabeling and misunderstanding the primary recurring antagonist of the Fallout universe is a pretty big oops. Shows a misunderstanding of the source material, unless someone can show me how I'm wrong. Which I suppose it is entirely possible, but playing through Fallout 2 shows an immense wealth of evidence to support my point.

As a result, this entire article, The Enclave, should be renamed the United States Shadow Government or something of the like, and the article or term "The Enclave" direct toward the oil rig base in Fallout 2. This seems to be a big misunderstanding of Fallout canon that should be straightened out. Handlebars 18:53, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Technically it's true what you say, but given that even in Van Buren, a game designed and later developed by creators of Fallout 2, the organisation was designated as the Enclave (Arcade Grannon and his lost Enclave patrol). Then there are Enclave Patrolmen around Navarro, Bird refers to Enclave as both the Oil Rig and organisation, same with Curling: "{172}{}{The Project that the Enclave has dedicated itself to these past several decades has been the reestablishment of the human race upon the continental United States. God Bless America.}", Navarro techs are designated as Enclave technicians... Everything points to the fact that BOTH the Oil Rig and the organisation are called the Enclave. That Furry Bastard 20:29, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Seeing as this is mainly a Fallout 3 wiki and they are called The Enclave by everyone in the game, it would just confuse most people to call them the U.S. Govt.GodPlageon 19:04, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

It's not "mainly a Fallout 3 wiki". It was founded before Fallout 3 and covers all Fallout games. Ausir 23:20, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I hardly see how this is mainly a Fallout 3 wiki, there is just as much info on the other two titles, if not more on Fallout 2.

Its true what you say Furry Bastard. But all that just seems to speak to the progressive unfolding of the main quest. Everything is labeled as you understand things up to that point. For instance, the main quest will assume you went to Navarro before the Oil Rig, and since all you have to go on by that point is some "Enclave," everything is labeled as such. i.e., everything is labelled with your character thinking some group called the Enclave took your tribe. Later it is revealed that it is actually the US Government remnants that took them. It isn't until later, inside Navarro, that it is revealed that The Enclave actually refers to their home base.

As for Curling, the biology doctor on the oil rig if I recall correctly, well, he is ON the Enclave. So it makes sense that since you are working within the Enclave, to refer to the work done by the people there in such a way. All he's really saying is that the main project everyone on the Enclave has been dedicated to is the FEV final solution. It is, after all, the only scientific endeavor that appears to be going on there, or at least by far the most paramount. As for Enclave technicians in Navarro, well, seeing as how the base was only recently established, those technicians likely just arrived from the oil rig. So the labeling is actually correct, they are technicians from the oil rig. The whole labeling seems to be intent on furthering the feeling that the government is expanding to the mainland.

All main quests unfold logically and progressively, with things becoming more clear as you discover more about what's going on. For instance, people's names are not listed in the game's description of them until you speak with them. Fallout 2's labeling reflects this progression in every aspect of the game. Fallout 3's labeling is just an amateurish mistake on reading that trend. I myself never got the feeling during the main quest of Fallout 2 that I was actually fighting an "Enclave." Maybe for a short while between the Arroyo abduction and Navarro, but after Navarro it is quite clear who you are fighting and what they are called: the remnants of the US Government.

The gate guard at Navarro is an important character, which is why he is a talking head when so many arguably more important characters are not. His importance is that he is your first true introduction to the antagonist of the game, your first conversation with who you are fighting. He is the "WTF?" factor when you realize what's really going on. And the gate guard clearly identifies that Navarro is "federal property," i.e. government property, and I do not believe he once mentions "Enclave."

As for Van Buren, it's non canon. If I recall correctly, it also possesses the same issue that Fallout 3 does, which is that it is made by different people from the first two and thus mistakes will be made. The game was also still a work in progress, you can hardly judge such thing by an unreleased non-canon title that was never finished. Handlebars 21:02, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Uh, no, Sawyer and (before he left) Chris Avellone both worked on Fallout 2 (the game that introduced the Enclave) and both refer to the organisation as Enclave and to the Oil Rig as, well, the Oil Rig. Your points are valid, but you're not taking one thing into account - while technically it's still the government of the United States of America, it's been 165 years since the war, six generations. In that time, it is likely that they believe to them both as the US Government and the Enclave.
Which retains its double meaning - it's an Enclave, the sole remaining outpost of pre-War United States, surrounded by lawlessness and terror (or, rather, what they believe themselves to be) of the post-War United States. To be honest, it's a non-issue - Enclave equals pre-War government and is, pretty much, used interchangeably. That Furry Bastard 23:06, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the Enclave originally, when it was founded, could have referred only to the Oil Rig (although according to Van Buren the Enclave was the name of the shadow government founded before the Great War), but eventually it gained a double meaning - both the organization and the place. And after the destruction of the Oil Rig, it refers to the organization alone. Some Fallout 2 examples:

  • "You're an illegal alien on Enclave territory." - random encounter patrolman
  • "The Enclave will rule the world!" - combat taunt
  • "Where is the Enclave main base located?" - clearly referring to the organization
  • Navarro characters are referred to as "Enclave technicians" etc.
  • "Enclave headquarters is located 175 miles off of the coast of California in the Pacific ocean. " - Navarro computer

It's clearly used to refer to both place and organization even in Fallout 2. And yes, several Van Buren developers did work on Fallout 2 (although not Sawyer). Ausir 23:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

While I am still not convinced by any of these arguments, since it appears you didn't fully read or understand what I said, I do somewhat agree that it isn't a huge issue. It is a naming problem that is rather small, and the problems it would cause and the work needed to fix all those naming issues probably wouldn't be worth working it out in the first place. Having said that, I think you don't quite understand the whole "progressive" look of the game. If you look at Fallout 2 in terms of what is said at what point in the main story, you will see how the proper naming is. Also, quotations by the Chosen One at a point in the story where he doesn't really understand his adversary are rather out of place.

Basically, I wanted to clear up the description of them. I feel saying the Enclave is "militaristic organization that claims to be a direct continuation of the pre-War United States government" is inaccurate. All evidence shows that the group you fight in Fallout 2 really are the descendants of the U.S. shadow government, with the disc found in the General's room in the Sierra Army Depot being obvious evidence of that, not to mention the lengthy history Richardson goes through about the Vaults. "Claim" just sounds like too weak a word for what is obviously fact. It should be bolded that they are the United States Government, or the United States Shadow Government, somewhere in the initial description. I will agree that flat out renaming the article was perhaps too much, but that little edit would make the article far more accurate without all the petty naming problems. Handlebars 00:52, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Sure, the "claim" part is valid. But the part where you claim that the Enclave only refers to the location and not to the organization in FO2 is not, since it does. Only one of the quotes is by the Chosen One (but spoken to an Enclave soldier who doesn't find it suspicious), the others are by members of the Enclave. If "Enclave" meant only the place, and not the organization, they wouldn't call the Oil Rig "Enclave main base" or "Enclave headquarters", but just "Enclave". Ausir 01:59, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I think reference to the Enclave as "ultra right wing" or "neoconservative" is sophmoric, simplistic, and just plain wrong. The Fallout world is a post-apocalyptic wasteland, so far divorced from our modern blue vs. red world that mechanically applying "liberal" or "conservative" labels is ridiculous.

Simplistic? Maybe. Sophomoric and "plain wrong"? Definitely not. There are so many similarities with their philosophy and neoconservative philosophy, particularly in regards to national power projection. When describing the Enclave to a Fallout layman, I often use the comparison "They're like the PNAC times ten". I don't remember specifics, but I also remember the FO2 devs intentionally making them analogous with the far right. Maybe someone more knowledgable on that can chime in...--MadCat221 01:39, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Since "conservative" means different things in different countries (and the term is also different politically-vs-ideologically, i.e., it can mean appealing to the middle-class to resisting change), I think it's the wrong term to use. We might want to explain it better, since untra-conservative to an American is going to be much different than an ultra-conservative from Denmark, Japan, or Ireland. I think we should avoid political labels period, it just gets in the way and overgeneralizes things. 98.198.83.12 02:24, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

Vault experiment projects: Edit

Well, I think that it could be both. Perhaps the government conceived the Vaults as a way to protect enough Americans to survive the war, but then some congressman who was really into experimental social science tacked on an amendment at the last minute that basically said, "vault conditions will be experimental to test human society." The main purpose of the vaults was still to preserve human stock, but the Enclave later lost faith in the ability of the Vaults to recolonize the U.S. because most vaults opened soon after the nuclear winter was over, perhaps thirteen years after the war (radiation levels were probably safe within a year of the war, in most places), and soon become corrupted by FEV, unexpectedly high radiation, and toxic waste:

  • LA Demo Vault: it's blown up by the time of Fallout 2, but I don't think anyone would make the case that the folks under the Cathedral were anything like pure humans.
  • Vault 8: its descendents, the Citizens of Vault City, are so mutated that they can no longer reproduce naturally, and must rely on artificial insemenation.
  • Vault 12: The Necropolis Vault. 'nuff said.
  • Vault 13: Okay, the people here are genetically pure humans
  • Vault 15: opened well before Fallout Wiki Dweller was kicked out of Vault 13. As such, it's a good bet that if the people of Arroyo have mutated because of the toxins, radiation, and FEV in the wastes enough to diverge significantly from Fallout Wiki 13 stock (at least in the Enclave's eyes), Fallout Wiki 15 descendents in NCR and among the raiders are considered mutants too.

The travels of Fallout Wiki Dweller and the Chosen One see five vaults. Of these, only one -- Vault 13 -- is attested by the Enclave to have genetically pure humans. One -- Vault 15 -- has descendents with no apparent mutations, just as the people of Arroyo have no apparent mutations, but it seems likely that they've mutated unacceptably (by the Enclave's high standards) as well. If the Enclave's experience is similar to that of the PCs, it isn't surprising, perhaps, that they're wary of relying on the vaults to colonize the Earth with "true humanity."

Since the Enclave no longer had faith in the Vaults as recepticals of "pure" humans, the vaults, originally perhaps intended 85% to preserve humanity and 15% as social experiments, became entirely social experiments in their eyes. After all, their mission to preserve humanity was moot since they or their descendents were no longer humans, so the Enclave might as well use them for something they're still somewhat useful for: seeing how groups of people react to their environment.

Remember that to the Enclave circa Fallout 2, the pre-war United States is as distant as the pre-Civil War United States is to us, at least in terms of chronology, even if the Enclave's technology has advanced only a little bit since the Great War (as opposed to everyone else, who has either fallen to below pre-war tech levels or stayed roughly at pre-war tech levels (the Brotherhood)). You have to assume that, while the Enclave was always a group of fanatical ideologues still stuck in a war that ended 164 years ago, the actual specifics of their policy probably changed greatly between 2077 and 2241. At first, they probably followed the original U.S. plan: wait a decade for the Vaults to open, record Fallout Wiki experiments and give them to future sociologists, then get to work rebuilding the U.S. with Fallout Wiki dwellers. Then various things got in the way of their plan (perhaps their plans depended on ferrying stuff between the oil platform and the mainland using the Poseidon oil tanker, but the occupation of San Francisco by the Shi obstructed that plan?). Then eventually, after the Enclavers who went to the oil platform as kids are wizened old men and women, and their children are ruling the Enclave, they find that FEV is all over the place and there's this dude called the Master who's turning people into mutants en masse. Crisis was averted, but after accessing Fallout Wiki Dweller's reports to the Overseer on his travels, they see the fates of Vault 15, 12, and the LA Demo Vault, and conclude that the Vaults didn't work as preservatives of pure humanity. They adjust their plans, and write the genetic stock of humans on the mainland as a loss. Still, they've read that there was more than one purpose to the Vaults: one was preserve humanity, another was social experimentation. They may not have preserved humanity, but they'll make interesting experiments anyway. Eventually 80 years later, this reevaluation of priorities turns into, "the Vaults were never about preserving humanity. They were just experiments." Jules

First of all, there was no nuclear winter in the Fallout world. As for the "no spaceships in Fallout rule that Spazmo mentions, I have yet to see it mentioned by any canon source. There's space travel in Fallout both according to Tim Cain (who made up Fallout Wiki Experiment stuff) and the Black Isle people (who made a space station in Van Buren and a shuttle in FO2). The "no space" assumption is probably based on the fact that planes were used to drop the nukes rather than missiles, but in my opinion that might be caused by the fuel shortage rather than by lack of technological means (it's not as if the US didn't have any rocket technology even before the WW2, which is before the Fallout world diverged from ours). Furthermore, the "spears of nuclear fire rained from the sky" line indicates that at least some rockets were used, although it doesn't mean that the majority of nukes were dropped from planes. And even if there was no equivalent of our space race in Fallout, it doesn't mean that the US Government couldn't have created some kind of starship (rememeber, SCIENCE!, not science) during the last few years before the War.
As for not including it in the Enclave article, we don't choose what is canon and what is not here. We simply state what appears in what games and what sources disagree. We're documenting the canon here, not creating it. Ausir 15:58, 8 Mar 2005 (GMT)

Spazmo Well, Ausir, you make a fair point in that we don't get to decide what canon is. We can't make sweeping changes to remake canon into what we'd (well, I'd) like, but in order for Vault Experiments to make ANY sense at all, some additions are necessary. Here's what I propose.

The US government actually did have some sort of spacecraft either ready to go or in construction before the war. But, as the bombs fell, the craft and its launching facility was destroyed, rendered inaccessible or somehow disabled such that the Government then had no choice but to form the Enclave on the Oil Rig.

Still, Vault Experiments are still wonky--IF all the Vaults are indeed experiments. I would suggest that there were many more control Vaults like V13, that most of Fallout Wiki Network was in fact intended to safeguard the American people so they could either repopulate North America or fly off to Alpha Centauri. However, as Jules suggests, over the decades, the Enclave leadership decides that with the unforeseen nationwide spread of the mutant FEV, the mainland survivors have been compromised. The Enclave knows what FEV is and what it can do, especially after seeing all the super mutants. Here, they decide to just forget about the whole thing and kill everyone.

I'm going to write it up this way for now and if we come to agree on something else, we'll change it. Thanks, guys. Spazmo 02:32, 9 Mar 2005 (GMT)

Where does it say that Fallout Wiki 8 inhabitants can't naturally reproduce? They artificially inseminate to keep their population at controllable levels, as it's made clear they didn't have much room to expand. 21:59, April 28 2009

So you're going to make stuff up because it makes more sense to you that way? Great, it's not like people rely on this wiki for reliable information and you do have qualifications to state assumption as fact. Twat 94.11.200.127 18:19, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

Extermination of V13 inhabitantsEdit

Some ad vocem voice.
V13 inhabitants were US citizens and were genetically pure, so it could be difficult to explain on the legal way, why they were been killed . Probably Enclave is military dictatorship (despite of democracy mask) and some "Patriot-Antimutant Act", allowing such action, is possible (eg. vault dwellers are not humans and US citizens, but experiment objects, they are not killed, but there are part of some scientific procedures, etc.; dr. Charles Curling seems to be proud dr. Mengele's descendant). dotz

Martial law. Martial law. Martial law. 124.182.151.40 13:28, 29 March 2009 (UTC) Harlequin

Exchange with SalvatoresEdit

Subcject of desert transaction in New Reno is only drugs (chems) for laser weapons (pistols). Don't remember any information in the Fallout 2, that Salvatore trade slavers for Enclave purposes (even if Metzger overheas it). According to Bible Enclave verti-assault squads did slaver runs for Mariposa excavations workforce.

dotz 8.10.2007

Shadow governmentEdit

Sawyer's RPG implies that the Enclave is a shadow government more in this sense (also from Wikipedia):

Conspiracy-theorists define shadow government as a secret government within the government. This secret government is the "real" government that controls the known government's basic course. The members' identities and meeting-halls of the secret shadow government are known by only a select few. This secret government is often portrayed as corrupt and having connections to the CIA, Illuminati, and Freemasons. It usually knows about and handles weird situations that are kept secret, such as the New World Order, the Apocalypse, aliens, the Antichrist, demons, human body- or soul harvesting, missing persons, experiments on people, etc. The shadow government is often funded by money that has been purposely "misplaced" within the government's system, or concealed behind government-contract projects that are false fronts for other undertakings.

As in, it was a power group within the US government before the War with connections to corporations like Poseidon and Vault-Tec. Ausir 01:10, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Old AftermathEdit

While the main base was destroyed, remnants of the Enclave forces might have survived in the Navarro base. The base may not have been able to maintain itself for more than a few months before needing to move on or change its operations. - what is the source of this information?--dotz 11:38, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

MariposaEdit

DDS: According to Chris Avellone, (I'll list the exact document if I can find it, I believe it to be one of the Fallout Bibles, maybe 0) the Super Mutants at Mariposa did not overthrow their Enclave masters and take their armaments. Instead, with the help of Melchior, a Magician from Redding who retained his intelligence even after being exposed to FEV, the Mutant slaves had in fact been hiding weapons from the Enclave.

It is Fallout Bible. It is right. However - 10 Enclave Patrolmen killed in Mariposa had incomplete equipment, small weapons only, less then 10 pieces. Compare their equpiment eg. with Sgt. Granite's squad (both were from ECC probably). Mutants could find flammers during excavations. See: Example of field operation - Mariposa Military Base excavation--dotz 21:05, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

This is wrong Edit

It is not OK to quote all over the wiki FOT (and others) as semi-canon and then at the same time quote Sawyer's PnP as de-facto canon. Please someone re-edit this page and move *everything* from Sawyer's PnP into its own paragraph which clearly identifies it as Sawyer's homemade PnP. Sawyer is a great rules expert but his Fallout canon is not on the same level. I surely (and other players as well) don't remember seeing Enclave's flag, Alpha Centauri flight plan, etc. in FO2 and leaving it as such only discredits this great webpage and even greater game.

85.10.50.92 09:47, 16 March 2008 (UTC)hexer

The Alpha Centauri flight plan is from Tim Cain, not from Sawyer. I can't find it right now, but he posted it at some forum. Ausir 23:01, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, hexer, you are right, but I can't see anybody, who would like to reedit it.--dotz 09:31, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for quick replies. It doesn't come to that am I right or am I wrong or if flight plan was Cain's or Sawyer's wet dream. I believe we don't need another "Star Wars canonization" here. I just wanted to point out that different sources have been mixed and presented as canon while the page otherwise clearly identifies and separates such paragraphs in other topics. Keep up the great work! (if no one reedits the page maybe I will) --85.10.50.235 12:08, 17 March 2008 (UTC)hexer
"The Alpha Centauri flight plan is from Tim Cain, not from Sawyer. I can't find it right now, but he posted it at some forum." - That will not do. I can't find it either, so... we're just going to keep info in here because it was "on some place we can't find or can't remember where it was?" - 74.5.111.155 09:29, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Possible aftermath facts Edit

  • According one of Fallout 2 endfilms Enclave survivors would join to the NCR ranks - after 12 years eventually, if there was military rule.
  • It was posible also that survived:
    • Camp Navarro staff,
    • Enclave Patrols as well as sgt. Granite’s,
  • according to Van Buren were planned:

--dotz 05:16, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Enclave symbol Edit

Is it officially in Fallout 3 as it says? Personally, I hope not since it looks somewhat amateurish and uninspired. A circle of stars and a bold E (in Arial font)?

--hexer

It's a circle of stars and a bold E, but the version on this page is fan-made. Here's the official one: enclavewa1.jpg Ausir 12:44, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

sorry, I wasn't dissing the fan-made symbol, it's well made actually. I was commenting on the the actual symbol who could use a bit work itself. it reminds me somewhat of EU flag with an euro in the middle p.s. thanks for that invitation to sign up --HEXER 13:20, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Autumn Edit

Who said he was Colonel in 2241? His rank is proper for year 2277.--dotz 22:41, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Re-organizationEdit

See: Forum:Organization of Enclave articles for the discussion of this and related articles. Ausir 23:03, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Enclave Points of Interest map Edit

In Fo2, the map in the conference room has several blinking spots all over the world. I'm looking them up and this is what I have so far:

  1. Paris, France
  2. Szczecin, Poland (?) - Penemuende - Werner von Braun? :)--dotz 22:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
  3. Athens, Greece
  4. Moscow, Russia
  5. Al Uqaylyah, Libia (???)
  6. Tabuk and Al'Isawiyah, Saudi Arabia (?)
  7. Akra, Ghana (?)
  8. Benguela, Angole (?)
  9. Tokio, Japan
  10. Hanoi, Vietnam (?)
  11. Bombai and New Delhi (?), India
  12. Darwin (?), Sydney and a third, unidentified location in Australia - US Naval base in Darwin, and I believe there may be one in sydney, that other location could be a Uranium mine (90% of the worlds uranuim comes from aussie)--Joshua, 12 April 2010
  13. Santiago, Chile (?)
  14. La Paz and Santa Cruz (?), Boliwia
  15. Brasilia, Brasil
  16. Santiago, Panama (???)
  17. Mexico City, Mexico
  18. Panama City,Florida (??)
  19. Fort Sumter, South Carolina (?)
  20. Atlanta, Georgia - southern accent CB chat in Fallout 3--dotz 22:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
  21. Something between Minnesota and North Dakota
  22. Seattle, Washington - Boeing--dotz 22:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
  23. Los Angeles, California - core region, VaulTech Vault--dotz 22:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
  24. Yuma, Arizone (Yuma Flats?)
  25. Anchorage, Alaska - USAF remnants?--dotz 22:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
  26. Quebec, Canada - annexed--dotz 22:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

That's what I have so far. Any significance to that? Shaur M. S. Grizlin 17:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Sometimes your work is priceless. I've marked capitals with bold (11 capitals within 26 places, France, Russia, Japan and India are real world powers, there are quite a few capital cities in Latin America, 9 places belonged to USA + influenced Mexico and Panama).--dotz 21:48, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

In March 2077, prepared for a nuclear or biological attack from China, the President and) the Enclave retreated to remote sections around the globe.--dotz 22:25, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Hold on,anchorage is there,wasnt that the place that the chinese invaded?Hmmmm,interesting,perhaps the U.S goverment wasnt being completly clear on "operation:anchorage"

Think they could be places of military presence/importance in the year 2077? I mean, who knows how Vietnam turned out in the Divergence? Possibilities

  1. Last [completely] free country before Soviet sphere of influence
  2. 1st major country within Soviet sphere of influence
  3. US supported anti-communist government, maybe we had military forces there.
  4. Capital of USSR
  5. We bombed Libya in the 80s (I think)
  6. Oil?
  7.  ?
  8.  ?
  9. Ally against China
  10. Maybe we conquered it during Vietnam and established a base there
  11.  ?
  12.  ?
  13. CIA sponsored coup in 1973
  14. Fought Commie Guerillas there (In 60s?)
  15.  ?
  16. Any US Base/Panama Canal - Panama would be an interesting place to have as a setting for a Fallout game
  17. We invaded Mexico in the divergence, probably had to station troops in the capital
  18.  ?
  19.  ?Maybe it is an important fort?
  20.  ?
  21.  ?
  22.  ?
  23.  ?
  24.  ?
  25. Garrison post-Operation
  26. annexed````MainMeister

Atlanta is the site of the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), a major biological research facility - including research into countering biological weapons. 24.98.211.134 13:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Alot of these places have large deposists of fossil fuels and mineral resources.

Plz reintegrate somewhere. Edit

Data protection

Data protection precedures could be connected with pre-war New Amended Espionage Act, 50 U.S.C., 31 and 32 (mentioned at Fallout manual)

* information could be classified by order of the President,
   * "need to know" rule, eg. information about the oil rig location or authorisation before obtaining the vertibird plans form maintenance,
   * Camp Navarro main computer access restrictions,
   * the special operations on the mainland were secret (Horrigan's operations, New Reno operations).

[edit] Procedures seen on the oil rig

* AAR (at least at verti-assault unit)
   * clearance for some sections,
   * containment procedues.

[edit] Procedures seen at Camp Navarro [edit] FOB security procedures

FOB security procedures were connected probably with security act 9837-334-27A:

* FOB is held by Base Commander; his office is off limits to all personnel,
   * a call from base security, when the tanker passkey is suspected to get into wrong hands; then it should be locked up,
   * security detail secures the tanker passkey, after his orders are checked by Base Commander's door guard,
   * the duty officer has to contact Base Commander once FOB is secured.

[edit] Alert

Eg. in case of infiltration by intruders. Unknown persons identification papers control.

* Sound the alarm!
   * Seal the base!
   * Secure all stations!
   * Go code red!
   * Get the backups started.
   * Secure the system and enable all security passwords.
   * Pointy end with the laser diode goes toward the enemy. Then pull trigger. (technicians and mechanics)

[edit] Other procedures

* court martial, eg. in case of treason (disobeying a direct order of a superior officer); it can be changed to immidiate execution during alert,
   * soldier identification papers should be carried at all times (eg. checked by officers during alert).

Stripping and reintegrating. Shaur M. S. Grizlin 18:07, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Lots of SpeculationEdit

Specifically in the section of the reasons behind the creation of the Vaults. It's speculation. The Space Ship idea was from Van Buren, which is considered noncanon. "Also mentioned in the Bloomfield Space Center design document for Van Buren: In November, 2076, the Enclave seized control of Bloomfield Space Center. They knew nuclear war was just around the corner, so they tried to refit the Hermes-13 and convert it into a vehicle that would take selected personnel (mainly themselves) off-planet, destination yet to be determined." I'm going to make note of it in the article. 74.5.111.155 09:03, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I'd also like to add, "The purpose of Fallout Wiki experiments was to help prepare the Enclave for either re-colonizing Earth or colonizing another planet if Earth turned out to be uninhabitable by unmutated humans." is what Fallout Wiki article states. Now, If we go by that, it seems to state that the spaceship idea wasn't the primary idea at all, just one of the possibilities. There's still no good source for any of this, and I don't think "I heard from Tom" or "I got the information from Mr. X" does any good. 74.5.111.155 09:22, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Since there are no other available explanations, we go with what the article says, unless there is a better reason released to us. That Furry Bastard 11:07, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

The spaceship idea was not originally from Van Buren, it was Tim Cain's original intent that eventually wasn't mentioned in-game, but was not contradicted, and then was elaborated upon in Van Buren. Ausir 23:25, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
I'd have to agree with both parties on this one to an extent. Even though we still do not have a source for it other than it being on a forum somewhere, I guess we could use it as canon "fodder." I mean, I think I'm not alone in thinking that the spaceship idea is stupid as hell, but at the same time, it's different and it's canon (possibly). However, we should be cautious in the words we pick from the developers and creators. For instance, Metzen and the devleopers of the Warcraft Universe has said things that never made it into Warcraft canon (or said things that would never make canon and eventually did, etc). That's just an easy example though. Things get reconned all the time and just because something is said by a developer doesn't mean that it's straight canon, nor does it mean that it should be ignored. For all we known, what is in-game is the only canon and what is outside is just what the developers want rather than what is canon. I know his comment is not contradicted, but it was never backed up either (Van Buren does not count, it was an incomplete game that was abandoned and is not considered canon, so whether or not the game backed anything up, it means nothing). 98.198.83.12 02:48, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

Politics of the EnclaveEdit

Eugenics and social immobility tend to be left wing, the only right wing element demonstrated by the Enclave is dedication to military technology. I think it would be more appropriate to describe them as authoritarian rather than ultra-right wing. --OvaltinePatrol 23:04, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

Because Hitler was completely, totally left wing. Riiight. 15px-Scribe.jpg Tagaziel (call!) 07:03, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
The only really evil right-wing thing the Enclave does in FO2 is trade advanced firearms to the Salvatores, that's a classic part of the whole nation building/colonialism/military adventurism thing that is associated with evil right-wing antics. But that's a really small part of what they're doing, their main plans involve social engineering and eugenics: Fallout Wiki Experiment, the Deathclaw experiment, and genocide. Science and social engineering used in such a way would be evil left-wing. --OvaltinePatrol 05:08, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
I agree with the Ovaltine guy. We do not know the political affiliations of the Enclave. We don't know their position on abortion, taxes, private vs public, marriage, etc. To say right-wing is wrong, to say left-wing is wrong. However, the eugenics experiments point strongly left-wing. And Hitler wasn't just right-wing OR left wing, his delusional crap was all over the spectrum. Authoritarian seems dead on. It neither implies that they are left-wing or right-wing. I know WikiAnswers is a really bad way to get an example, but http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_a_liberal_and_a_conservative shows the difference. If we look at that, the Enclave are definitely liberal. But if we look at http://www.strike-the-root.com/4/weebies/weebies1.html we can probably point them to the conservative side (more or less). That's a bad example as well, but you see my point? We don't know enough about the Enclave to say that they are Liberal or Conservative. We could argue that they are conservative or liberal all day and get nowhere. 98.198.83.12 06:32, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
Wow, talk about butthurt American conserves. Enclave is obviously right-wing, from it's president through Daniel "Quayle" Bird down to its approach to everyone. It's even more obvious in the context of post-911 America. 11px-Naglowaa_se.gif Tagaziel (call!) 08:10, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
How is it more obvious in the context of post 9/11 America? I missed the part where right-wingers announced their plans to wipe out most of the world. It's just a fact that institutional and so-called scientific racism have their roots in the left-wing in America. I'm not even calling the Enclave left-wing, though their ideology supports that label, because as I've mentioned they also make use of a number of insidious tactics that play towards right-winger status. Of course you don't actually care, you've demonstrated that by using one of the two most dismissive expressions of online conversations. --OvaltinePatrol 00:22, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

Actually, they identify themselves as Republicans in Fallout 2. Ausir(talk) 00:25, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not saying that they don't self-identify as Republican. What I'm trying to communicate is that the Enclave is an apolitical entity. Between the Fallout Bible and some of the stuff in Fallout 2 (especially the conversation with the Enclave operator on Poseidonet), it's clear that the Enclave isn't really a Republic-style government. Their internal politics resemble a corporation full of sinecures and their external politics are "kill everyone," that doesn't resemble left or right wing politics at all. --OvaltinePatrol 02:57, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps post-war. Pre-war, their ideology bears more than a passing resemblance to the ideology of the PNAC. --MadCat221 05:09, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

West Coast Leader Edit

So who leads the Enclave during the events in Broken Steel? President Eden is killed by the player or Liberty Prime, and Col. Autumn is killed/forced to step down by the player...So who is telling the enclave to do what? Are they just flying blind? Is the Armory master/Sigma leader calling the shots then? Tzaro the Outcast 01:41, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

It's not explained, probably so that Bethesda can bring the Enclave back over and over and over and over and over again and again and again and again... Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 08:28, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Could have been the Enclave High Command that was mentioned. Possibly more officers dressed like Colonel Autum, only they could be generals and such.

The High Command went up in flames with the Oil Rig. In 2277 Autumn was the sole remaining military leader of the Enclave, so the EHC is likely just his command staff. Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 07:06, May 8, 2010 (UTC)
well the enclave went everywhere when the bombs droped so the EHC may be anywhere however i find canada to be the most likely location (seeing as navaro would not have lasted long with out the oil rigs help)
It seems to me that during Broken Steel the Enclave reacts much the same way any other military organization would when faced with losing its leadership. One would have to assume that either Col. Autumn's second in command or an Enclave commander located outside the Capital Wasteland would assume command. Failing that they might just be reacting to the situation as it develops. You'll notice throughout Broken Steel that the Brotherhood is the one stepping up the offensive actions against the Enclave, not the other way around. It's completely possibly the the remnants of the Enclave in the Capital Wasteland and simply responding to the Brotherhood's attacks in an attempt to save their own lives. UEF-Hokie 21:26, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Autumn a scientist? Edit

"a high-ranking scientist named Autumn".

Yeah, he didn't really strike me as the intellectual type. Why is he a scientist?

Autumn Sr. was the scientist, his son (this Autumn) just took over as military commander when he passed away.##

New Enclave Symbol?Edit

Does anyone know where the 3D Enclave Logo came from, it's pretty good but what's its source? Adam James Walker 15:47, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

Grizzly made it, I think. I'm not quite sure, but I know he made the 3D Outcast symbol, and I think the current Poseidon Energy logo too. Nitty Tok. 15:52, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

UntitledEdit

   * Shut down all classified operations.

Incorrect information Edit

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Remnants#Vault_13

Some incorrect information in this part. The intelligent deathclaw were not left to guard the vault. They were another experiment to breed a new soldier but their intelligence was greater than the enclave thought. The deathclaw played dumb making the scientist believe the experiment was a failure. The deathclaw were then either released or escaped and found vault 13 making it their home.

If I remember correctly killing the scientist at Navarro down the hall from the captive deathclaw and releasing that deathclaw is what prevents them from being slaughtered.

67.186.58.211 01:58, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

Eden? Edit

It states in the page that eden was destroyed by the lone wander. However, this is not known to be canon, much like the fate of augtus autmun. Mabye in the page we should include something along the lines of it was unknown if the lone wander got eden to destroy the raven rock base

I completely agree with you, so I hereby scratch the line about exploiting Eden's AI and blowing up Raven Rock. We'll check it again when a new canonical part (FO4?) is set on the East Coast, setting the canonical endings. EDIT: Darn, the page has been locked against editing. Admin? U there? Please edit (or open) the page!

Cass/Richardson Edit

Cass and RichardsonEdit

On the Enclave page it states that Cass made a comment about President Richardson, I was curious what the comment is? Can anyone enlighten me?Boone123 04:20, March 17, 2011 (UTC)Boone123

Un-onbjective SpeculationEdit

While the Enclave and its armed forces claim to be the official continuation of the pre-War United States government and the U.S. Army, in reality, they have no constitutional mandate or, in fact, any legitimacy, other than being the great grandchildren of government officials & corporate executives.

Where does this come from and more importantly how is it in anyway confirmable? Given the nature of the divergence, the domestic disputes and the already immoral and illegal acts of the federal government before the war (Mariposa and it's US Army continution at Vault 87) we cannot in anyway determine the status of the pre-war Constituation, for that same degree of uncertainty we cannot either confirm nor deny the constitutional status of the Enclave; this seems to me at least mere speculation based on what I can only assume is the Enclave's actions as opposed to anything concrete - which does not exist. I personally would suggest that this paragraph be removed from the article as being largely un-supported and un-professional but will, of course, leave it in the hands of someone with authroity to affect that change. --82.7.233.147 19:50, June 17, 2011 (UTC)

I find several parts of this article to be inaccurate, speculative without saying so. I attempted to address this but found the page locked to editing.

ENCLAVE Edit

i would like to add to the enclave wiki page that the enclave were never pushed out of Chicago there is still a small out post that has probably grew over the years to be a main enclave base and even there capital. the enclave are not yet dead there still is a presences of them in the fallout world still today, and i would like to add that there is a town near Chicago named Enclave and is counted as a part of Chicago. i now this of course because i live in Chicago and Ive been in this town. from were it is on the map of Chicago it would be the perfect spot to have a enclave base, the town even has a national guard base and armory. -written by us-marines376

The only problem is that almost all of that is speculation and we don't add speculation to articles. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't every major city have a national guard base? Paladin117>>iff bored; 05:22, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

Real-world Reference Edit

Could the Enclave be a reference to the political geography term 'enclave'?

Quote from wikipedia page Enclave and exclave:

"In political geography, an enclave is a territory whose geographical boundaries are entirely surrounded by the boundaries of another territory." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclave_and_exclave --WrightEveryTime 18:38, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

The Enclave & Fossil FuelsEdit

"The Enclave also has access to one of the last supplies of fossil fuel in the world and the advanced Vertibird aircraft."

Is what the Wiki says. My question is how do they still have access to fossil fuels and if so what is your proof that they still have such access?

They HAD access when they were on the Rig. But the Rig is gone which means they no longer have access to fossil fuels.

So I see no reason to continue saying they do. Change Has to Had. Is the proof that they have vertibirds therefore they need Fossil Fuel? Well that would mean NCR and Lyons BoS also has access to fossil fuels would it not?

The Enclave have access to a fuel source. We can't say for sure that it is fossil fuels.

--StylesV13 (talk) 21:46, December 2, 2012 (UTC)StylesV13

I'm inclined to agree. We don't know what fuel sources are being used. If the rig is on the site of the last known oil deposit as most suspect, we still wouldnt know if it were completely used up. Given when the vertibird was designed, I would be suprised if it were not a nuclear powered device.

(However, that would lead me to wonder about places like the refueling depot near Jacobstown.... If the reactor in Power armour uses so little fuel it lasts that long, surely the Vertibird could go longer... Unless its something like coolant that needs to be changed or something, in any case this is beside the point). Agent c (talk) 21:52, December 2, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe the Enclave are using some sort of Ethanol based fuel like the Boomers for their Bomber and possibly what the MWBoS used. But the point is the Rig is gone. Which means fossil fuel access is gone. Sure their could be re-war stores of it in bunkers and such. But that would run out and then what? And since we know NCR and Lyons now have Vertibirds. What are they using for fuel?

I just think "Has" should be changed to "Had." It's not like it's a major change but it reflects that things have changed since Fallout 2. --StylesV13 (talk) 22:16, December 2, 2012 (UTC)StylesV13

GrammarEdit

Change "who" to "that" in the first sentence; "organization" is not a person. And "are" should be "is," as "organization" is singular. Change "claim" to "claims" for the same reason, and remove the comma before "and." 69.l25 (talk) 06:52, January 23, 2014 (UTC)

Eden and Richie Edit

Okay you both should know better. Page is protected. You two duke out your changes here and when you reach consensus then I'll unlock it for you both to add your agreed change. Agent c (talk) 20:48, May 12, 2014 (UTC)

Fall and Aftermath vs Internal Sabotage Edit

Kreger's claim is that internal sabotage took out the rig. However, that would imply an Enclave member was responsible and the heading is therefore, misleading. What we do know is that Chosen One did it, ruling out that internal sabotage started the self destruct sequence. I am taking this to the talk page to avoid a potential edit war. Richie9999 (talk) 20:49, May 12, 2014 (UTC)

"Internal sabotage took down the oil rig - never did get the full story. The NCR took out Navarro, saying we posed a threat to the region." This statement implies that internal sabotage was the official Enclave statement, and makes no reference of the chosen one, who we KNOW was there. Richie9999 (talk) 20:50, May 12, 2014 (UTC)
How does it imply that an Enclave member was/is responsible at all...?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/internal

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sabotage

Internal sabotage... in other words, internally sabotaging the reactor of the Oil Rig so that it would explode...

Enclavesymbol 20:56, May 12, 2014 (UTC)

That would make "Internal Sabotage" a tautology... Internal sabotage is typically sabotage by someone inside the organisation; External sabotage from someone outside. The "Internal/External" coming from the persons relationship with the thing being sabotaged. Agent c (talk) 21:01, May 12, 2014 (UTC)

What comes across is that it was an inside job. Additionally, was the attack at Navarro also an example of Internal Sabotage? The only bit that could be said was "Internal Sabotage" is the rig. Additionally, the two words together don't have the same meaning as when they are separate, the way they are combined "Internal Sabotage" there was sabotage, where did it come from? Inside. Inside what? Nonspecific, it could be the involved organization or from inside the rig. The fact that Kreger only knew the rig was brought down by sabotage, without any knowledge of outsiders implies that it was done by someone inside the Enclave. Richie9999 (talk) 21:00, May 12, 2014 (UTC)
Well, I figured that with the pretty clear context of the Oil Rig itself as a location brought about in this particular dialogue tree, that it would come to mind as a completely sealed and interior-exclusive place. Pretty sure Richardson even says the Oil Rig was a sealed unit so that no contaminants got in or got out. Would just the word 'Sabotage' do better? I really think we can do a little better than 'Fall and Aftermath' quite honestly, because the two words come across as an oxymoron to me. How does one have an aftermath, after they've already apparently fallen...? Hell, I don't really actually even see an 'aftermath' outlined in the section at all, either. Just the knowledge that the Oil Rig was sabotaged/destroyed from the inside by Chosen.
Makes zero sense to me, especially considering the Enclave as a whole is never referenced as 'falling' completely, only in New California/the West Coast. Enclavesymbol 21:12, May 12, 2014 (UTC)
Fall and aftermath makes more sense than internal sabotage and sabotage, both of those only relate to one specific event, which is the destruction of the oil rig. Fall covers the loss of the Rig and Navarro and aftermath indicates the exodus of survivors to the East. Fall doesn't necessarily mean complete loss for example: Napoleon's first defeat and exile could be seen as a fall but he was not done, and aftermath could easily be used to describe what Napoleon did following his fall. Richie9999 (talk) 21:15, May 12, 2014 (UTC)
Fair enough. I withdraw my desire to change the section name, then. Enclavesymbol 21:20, May 12, 2014 (UTC)

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