Talk: Brotherhood of Steel (Fallout 3)

New name

Morgan refers to this chapter as Lyons' Brotherhood of Steel. Should we move it? _Tagaziel ^(call!) 07:29, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Um, no, we definitely shouldn't move it. --Kris 11:30, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Why? _Tagaziel ^(call!) 11:46, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Because that's not what it's called, officially, by the real Brotherhood of Steel in California. If we were to change it to anything it should be to what they refer to it as, don't you think? And I believe they refer to it as the East Coast Brotherhood of Steel but I'm not sure on that. --Kris 12:42, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Why the hell would you rename it? Lyon's Brotherhood of Steel isn't the official name, not in the eyes of the Brotherhood of Steel, it's an informal name. The official name remains Brotherhood of Steel East Coast chapter, Lyon's Brotherhood of Steel is just a nickname. Think about it, it's a hell of a lot easier then saying 'Brotherhood of Steel East Coast' every time you mention it. --Enigma24 (talk) 11:06, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

Sarah's Age

Was Sarah 8 years old or 8 months old when they left the Core Region? People keep changing it back and forth and I don't know which one's right. I'm not even sure what the source is for 8 to begin with. --Kris 22:04, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

I'll find a source, right after I wrap my head around the concept of taking a child on a military expedition across the entire nuked out continent. _Tagaziel ^(call!) 22:39, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

I think the concept is a bit ridiculous. Why would you take a child with you on an expedition? The child would be a hindrance and the Brotherhood would have to waste a lot of resources to protect it. Also, it's kinda weird how Sarah survived the entire expedition, including the journey through the Pitt. Nukey ^(talk) 22:42, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

It would make more sense if she was 18 years old than if she was 8 of anything. --Kris 23:42, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

It would. It would've made sense if they had her born in the Capital Wasteland instead of at the beginning of the trip. Nukey ^(talk) 23:52, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Even as young as 15 would make sense - old enough to stay outta the way and hold her own for a moment as needed, but too young to be an initiate. --Kris 00:57, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Considering sarah is about the players age the lone wanderer first meets her i'd have to say she was born when they arrived in the Capital wasteland as the BoS arrived in the Capital Wasteland 20-30 years before the Lone Wanderer is born.-bleep196- 01:02, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Someone made a false edit to Sarah Lyons - she's actually 30 years old, not 23 (born in 2247, not 2254). --Kris 01:05, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Really? 30 jeez and she supposedly has a relationship with the Lone Wanderer (Male character that is) that would make here at least 11 years his elder meaning she's a cougar by definition. -bleep196- 01:08, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the Lone Wanderer likes older women. Sort of a mummy complex if you will. --Enigma24 (talk) 11:07, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

Liberty Prime

Should Liberty Prime be mentioned in the Technology section? Thomasb2k 04:28, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

Future Games

In future games I expect this group to have a large scale war with NCR. It seems logical that the East Coast Brotherhood will begin to expand its reach back to the West, similar to the NCR moving into Nevada. I think one of the Central States will serve as a good host. Who's side will you take? Broken Record Fan 04:41, May 31, 2011

Check my blog for why it ISN'T a good plot. _Tagaziel ^(call!) 21:13, May 15, 2011 (UTC)

To be honest... that felt more like you were critiquing Fallout 3. Though what you said was well thought out, you went into too much detail. You kept saying that there was no way the Brotherhood would become stay a superpower in the long term because of a lack of agriculture on the East Coast... but if you are going off of that then there should not be a soul alive left in the Capital wasteland and the Enclave could not have survived underground all those years. That was more of Bethesda not going into enough depth with their game. A mistake. You also repeatedly said Lyons was an incompetent leader. Your blog is mainly about you giving your two cents on Bethesda's storytelling abilities. The game made it pretty clear that the choice that supports the Brotherhood is the "correct" choice and it wants you to side with Lyons as, what is supposed to be, an intelligent leader of a good organization. And though I can agree with you that the story was seriously flawed, I enjoyed the ride and I felt compelled from beginning to end. I get that you do not like Fallout 3... which is absolutely fine with me. The problem with what you are saying about the East Coast Brotherhood not surviving is that if/when Bethesda continues on after Fallout 3's story arc... they will continue the franchise in their direction whether or not you approve. Broken Record Fan 04:41, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

Something that seems to be missed by most of the folk criticizing Fo3 is how dangerous the super mutants actually used to be, and how much of an effect they had on the Capital Wasteland as a whole. See, the CW's super mutants have been around the area for most of the post-war period. With the CW's lack of luck, they were left with no powerful groups to defend it. Remember, unlike the west coast, the east never had the added bonus of being able to survive for a short while in vaults (though, even west coast vaults were kinda crap sometimes) and the east coast was basically filled with unready, disorganized, radiation susceptible survivors. Put them up against these muties, and no matter how dumb the mutants, their biological advantages of strength and radiation resistance allow them to seize basically anything they need or want without even needing to worry about anyone putting up a proper fight. Over time, people eventually fight slowly, but in the end, the CW is full of so much fighting, the place is left with no one even able to attempt to re-start up agricultural systems because they're so busy just trying to stay alive against hordes of enemies (super mutants and raiders) who are too stupid to figure out how to do it themselves. Add to that the crap condition of the land and water (dry, dirty and irradiated. Like the landscape in at least two other games, though with different severity) and there wasn't much chance for folk to actually get anything started. BUT, that's not to say it's impossible. There is evidence in-game that shows that the land can yield fruit (see the farm near Canterbury and Mutfruit for examples) and with time, and the new resource of clean water and the research of Rivet City, and with the Brotherhood finally putting a dent in Super Mutant numbers, the chances of starting up proper farms once again seem to look a little higher. Maybe not army marching high but still a noticeable improvement.86.108.22.28 14:01, February 22, 2014 (UTC)

Possible Edit?

This article states that the BoS are known to hire mercs like Reilly's Rangers. Is this canon? Or is it possibly implicated via dialogue? ~ KingHitmanlane

It does say on Reilly's terminal about a contact in the Brotherhood and in a small Free quest a note say's about the Brotherhood getting the Girl (Cheryl)to deliver a package to the ranger's HQ (possibly payment). Also i think the Geomapper quest is the Brotherhood hiring mercs to find locations of interest in D.C. Given the Brotherhood's small size compared to the vast expanse of the Capital wasteland i'd say it is most possible that mercenary contracts are made.

Thanks

where does it mention them in new vegas?

This article is on the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood, not the Mojave Wasteland. ~ KingHitmanlane

although veronica does reference them by saying they had a small civil war on the east coast over their normally strong isolationist tendencies(if you're trying to find out what happened by checking new vegas i think they left it pretty open from what i've seen. not sure who wins, fo3 seems to hint/assume lyons is supposed to, but veronica saying west bos in fnv having contact(and the context of her statement) sound like maybe outcasts did. imo lyons winning was cannon based on broken steel but we'll see)

Ah but you forget one important fact. The western Brotherhood of Steel disagree with how Lyons changed his mission and feel he has become too attached to the locals. Lyons even mentions in-game that the Brotherhood command doesn't agree with him, so the western Brotherhood would likely support the Outcasts. One little 'disciplinary' detachment from the west would be all it takes to put Lyons and his followers in their place and restore the Outcasts. Protector Casdin, leader of the Outcasts, hints that Lyons would be put before a firing squad. But I guess we'll have to wait and see. Theres always the third option, that the civil war destroyed them both. --Enigma24 (talk) 11:12, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

So the East Coast BoS defeats the Enclave and destroys the Super Mutants and are then defeated by a raggedy ass group in rusty armor? Seems legit.

There are more ways to defeat a better equipped enemy. You don't have to fight them head on. Pick off those power armoured boy scouts one by one while they're out on patrol. --Enigma24 (talk) 12:04, June 18, 2013 (UTC)

Meanwhile the BoS fixes Liberty Prime and storms the Outcasts base, finishing them off for good.

You people really don't think do you? The Brotherhood of Steel really can't hope to rebuild Liberty Prime. They just don't have the amount of resources or the staff to do it. It took a large, very well funded group of American scientists and technicians with a lot of funding years to build Liberty Prime in the first place. How are the Brotherhood of Steel going to do it when they barely have enough resources for general use?--Enigma24 (talk) 21:27, June 18, 2013 (UTC)

Except the Capitol Brotherhood does have the resources to do that. Just ask Rothchild. And before you start calling people names because they don't share the same interests as you do then consider this. The strategy you proposed for the Outcasts to defeat the BoS is basically a guerrilla war, in order for this to be successful you two things. One is resupplies which the Outcasts do not have since the only people who might be willing to do so are across a continent and are mostly dead. The second is a place where the enemy can't follow you so you can regroup which the Outcasts also lack. Meanwhile the Capital BoS has gained air support through captured Vertibirds and other technology from the Enclave and can recruit more members from the Wasteland and can properly train them now that the Super Mutants are gone, thus they can replace any scouts that Outcasts manage to pick off while the rusties huddle in a little hiding hole so that they wont be annihilated by Vertibirds. Seriously if you actually play the game and pay attention rather then be all pissy then you'll realize that unless the Outcasts have a doomsday hidden up their ass then they rally don't have much going for them. But it doesn't really matter what I type, you will always jump through hoops to justify your nonsense and claim your opinions are facts when there really not. Thankfully I'll have the last laugh in Fallout 4.

Do you really think it would be feasible and worthwhile rebuilding Liberty Prime? It would take a lot of resources and man-power that would have to be taken from general Brotherhood use, they would be diverting resources away from where it is most needed. Then there is the amount of time it would for the rebuild and if they even have the parts in sufficient condition to properly fix Liberty Prime. Sure they might be able to cobble him together with aged or rusted parts but if he's not in proper combat condition then what would be the point. You do have a point about the Outcasts, if they could only stop being so arrogant and abusive towards the Wastelanders then they might have a better chance. You mention Vertibirds. Wouldn't the Brotherhood back west also have vertibirds? Say Henry Casdin managed to get in contact with Brotherhood command. It would be possible, albeit a great expense of resources, to send a detachment from California to discipline Lyons little group. At the end of the day I always supported the wastelanders so I don't really care what happens to the Brotherhood. --Enigma24 (talk) 04:26, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

Oh the Irony..

The outcasts left the Brotherhood because they where sick of helping the locals rather than focusing on technology recovery. After the events of 'broken steel' the brotherhood has more than succeeded in their original mission having

1. reactivated liberty prime 2. created a new weapon (Tesla cannon) 3. A ton of enclave tech to play with 4. Control over a large water purifier 5. The trust of the locals 6. Not become a bunch of xenophobic ass holes

This makes them more successful than both the Outcasts and other sections of the brotherhood.

Not really. Liberty Prime is destroyed forever (sorry Rothschild, you can't fix alone what an entire army of scientists with access to limitless resources built), Tesla cannon is a pre-War design, while the last four are not going to happen, since Lyons is an idiot and most likely will use all this stuff to find another White Whale to hunt (if he ever manages to hunt down the supermutants). _Tagaziel ^(call!) 18:35, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

Don't like him much, do you? Didn't other sections of the brotherhood collapse? Making the Lyons branch more successful by comparison?

Also Owen Lyons was due to retire soon, his daughter would take over. She seems fairly level headed. The super mutants are running out of F.E.V and have dwindling numbers, they would die out eventually.

I tend to avoid the Brotherhood and the Outcasts entirely while playing Fallout 3. I just don't quite trust either of them; the Outcasts treat you like a mindless yokel and verbally insult you and the Brotherhood under Lyons simply abandoned their mission to make themselves out as saints. But I tend to lean towards the Outcasts, at least they have the conviction to stick to their mission. --Enigma24 (talk) 11:03, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

Last time I checked Human life is more important than technology.

That's a good point. But I'm not really a fan of the human race...--Enigma24 (talk) 09:49, June 17, 2013 (UTC)

Name

Five months ago, this page was moved from Brotherhood of Steel (Capital Wasteland) to Lyons' Brotherhood of Steel under the basis that Henry Casdin calls them that, but I find this weird for two reasons:

1. Does Casdin ever call them that? I found Defender Morgan calling them that while insulting them, but I couldn't find Casdin saying it anywhere, unless I'm missing it.
2. Is one Outcast calling them Lyons' Brotherhood really a good source for the name change? The Outcasts don't consider the Capital Wasteland division a part of the Brotherhood of Steel anymore, so it sounds more like they're insulting them and mocking Lyons. Also, no other source in and out of the game calls them by this name. Even this wiki doesn't call them this, there's not a single other page in the Nukapedia mainspace that calls them Lyons' Brotherhood of Steel.

I'm hoping for some input from other users. Paladin117^{>>iff bored} 16:08, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

There is no such thing as "Lyons BOS". The CW detachment is still part of the BOS as said by Owyn, but the Elders back West simply leave them on their own with no support. They should just be called the "Columbia BOS" (Columbia Commonwealth). The Outcasts are not part of the true BOS, as they were thrown out by Lyons who still retains the authority he had back West. User:Broccoli. 16:17, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

I propose a name change to "Columbia Chapter". User:Broccoli. 16:20, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

Owyn still has all the authorities he had before he set out to the CW. As per Owyn's dialogue, the West did not expell Lyons and the CW soldiers. Instead, they just let them go their business but cut off supplies and communications. They are still a part of the Brotherhood. Since Owyn retains the authority mentioned above, if he kicked out soldiers who became Outcasts, then those soldiers are no longer BOS members. User:Broccoli. 16:23, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

I was more proposing a change back to their old name, or at least an arguement for the current name. Also, I know Lyons is still part of the Brotherhood, I was just explaining how, through the Outcasts' point of view they aren't, which makes me find the name questionable. Paladin117^{>>iff bored} 16:42, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

I disagree with the Name Columbia BOS; in my experience the common fan names for them are "Eastern BOS" and "Capital Wasteland BOS"; with Columbia we're basically inventing a new name. I do however agree with the interpretation as to their status as per the WBOS - they are technically within the same ranking structure until or unless theres some proclamation otherwise. Agent c 16:44, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

I do prefer Capital Wasteland or East Coast over Columbia, but do you agree with changing it from Lyons' Brotherhood of Steel? Paladin117^{>>iff bored} 18:21, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

They operate fairly outside of the CW too, and the BOS could have other chapters on the East. E.g. Florida. Broccoli. 18:28, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

I have two names I thought of: Columbia-West Virginia Chapter, or Northeastern BOS. Broccoli. 22:43, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Brotherhood Of Steel (Columbia-West Virginia)

Brotherhood Of Steel (Northeast) Broccoli. 22:44, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

I went to class (yay physics), so I missed you suggesting these, but let here's my arguements for/against them:

• Capital Wasteland - The chapter rarely operates outside the Capital Wasteland with the only known exceptions of the Pitt (although they went there on the way to the Capital Wasteland, before establishing a base) and the two battles in Broken Steel, like Adams Air Force Base, so the name is good.
• Eastern/East Coast - I'll admit a little too broad considering they only operate in a small region of it.
• Columbia-West Virginia - It might work, but it's a little long and they only operate portion of each.
• Northeast - D.C. isn't usually considered part of the Northeast really, that's states like New Jersey, Pennsylvania and further up.

So, I personally prefer Capital Wasteland, since Fallout 3 takes place almost entirely there and that's where the BoS stay mostly, but I understand arguements for other names. Paladin117^{>>iff bored} 01:09, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

There's no point in changing it to something different. It is completely impractical and will need more link updates and redirects, which can lead to technical issues. --Skire (talk) 01:11, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

The Pitt

The article says that during the scourge, during the Brotherhoods sweep through the Pitt they had one casualty, Ashur. If you collect enough ingots in the mill you get a suit of power armour styled after Ashurs, I assume because of this that at least one other Brother was lost, but don't want to add this if people arent sure.Mrsuperhappy (talk) 14:13, November 25, 2012 (UTC)

From what I have read, his suite is pre war and probably was scavenged during the trip to the pitt. He tells you he was the only "casualty" during the Scourge.--Wert1978 (talk) 00:41, December 8, 2012 (UTC)

NO someone stilled it after there Lord Ashur Everett says so.--Ant2242 (talk) 03:14, December 8, 2012 (UTC)

Why the BOS are in DC

• I was reading about New Canaan and some things about Van Buren and found a reference to the "NCR-BOS" conflict that occurred in 2253. But before this Jeremy Maxson(BOS) wanted to expand BOS influence eastward, to obtain undiscovered technology. He learned of Peterson's bunker in southern Colorado. It was a bunker built for Sen. Todd Peterson and his family, funded by Poseidon Oil and pre war Enclave. Jeremy sent a few paladins to find and secure the bunker, These paladins found it and held it for 10 years before proper BOS forces finally arrived to claim the bunker. The paladins were promoted and praised. This was in 2242. It wasn't long after, war broke out with NCR and continued for a very long time. I would like to think it was something they found in that pre-war bunker, some information, that lead to the BOS going to search for tech on the east coast(DC) and the war with NCR providing motive for BOS trying to reconnect with Midwest BOS. The bunker had it's own library, I'm sure with tons of government information. It just makes sense. Casdin states they were sent not just to DC, but were to salvage technology all along the east coast. I guess what I'm saying is this could be the initial reason why the idea of sending BOS to the east coast came about.--Wert1978 (talk) 15:09, November 25, 2012 (UTC)

Capitol wasteland BOS flag?

Where does the flag used on this page originate from?TrafficCoen (talk) 20:59, January 12, 2014 (UTC)TrafficCoen

It's in the Citadel in 2 different places. One is hanging up just above the entrance to the Citadel Bailey (can only be seen from inside, not from the outer Wasteland). The other flag is inside the A-wing, being placed in front of a pre-War poster so it covers up the US flag. Paladin117^{>>iff bored;} 22:05, January 12, 2014 (UTC)