Talk: Brotherhood of Steel

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NCR War confirmed!

The war with NCR was confirmed by J.E. Sawyer in a GameTrailer TV interview. 70.126.216.230 02:48, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

Proof: http://www.spike.com/full-episode/god-of-war-ghost-of/39026

Around the 10:30 mark.

Thank you.

70.126.216.230 03:20, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

Not the whole Van Buren war. Vegas' war is different. Nitty ^Tok. 03:28, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

NMA

&nbsp Hey, Ausir, it is canon for NMA contest purposes!--dotz 19:05, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed. Well, there is no better source for canon info on the BOS, is there? :) Ausir 20:18, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Ausir, does it matter whether that sentence is there or not? The one about Knights Templar? Cause with it, it seems to be a run-on sentence. Without it, it's a bit more focused. -- (User:Middle Man 12:53, 12 August 2008 (UTC))

They do compare themselves to Knights Templar in Fallout 1, so I think it's better not to remove it. Ausir 13:02, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

They also refer to themselves as a "knightly order" in Fallout 3 - might sound a little better than "techno-religious organization", at any rate. -- 24.94.62.71 02:07, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

I find it kind of annoying that the people of the capital wasteland are protected by lyons detachment and yet very few people do anything for them. Yes apparently the casualty rate is horrendous but it has its perks.Bethesda should but in something like some 10 people sign up because its kind of annoying hearing them b**** and moan about not having enough supplies even after i brought them 15 perfect power armor suits 15 laser rifles 15 assualt rifles and enough food and water for months. ughhhh i needed to rant.

Fallout 3 BOS structure and ranks

It seems that the roles of the Knights have changed in FO3 - they appear to be be simply less advanced soldiers rather than manufacturers with the Scribes maintaining and constructing all the gear. I'm also not sure where the sub-ranks (Knight Captain, Knight Sergeant) fit in - to say nothing of 'Star Paladin'. And is the ARM SC Cross' Super Sledge or some other icon of the BOS? --Trithemius 23:29, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, either the ranks of the BOS as a whole changed by 2277, or the Capital Wasteland BOS uses a different rank system from the Lost Hills one. Ausir 23:56, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I think some ranks just got new functions because the DC-BOS doesn't have enough troops. Kamuikaze 18:17, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

If that's the case, then the distinction between the two different ranking systems should be addressed 16:33, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

How clubby is the Capital Brotherhood?

If the PC kills, say, one of the lone sentries stationed next to the reflecting pool in the Mall, and there are no other BoS NPCs in visual range, will this still render the entire faction hostile to the PC? 68.209.248.80 07:27, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

No, the entire faction will not turn hostile, only BOS NPCs that detect your murderous actions will turn hostile. --DynamicEcho 08:46, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The BoS and MEGATON theft

It gets worse than hostile...If you kill BoS to kit out Charon in their bright new armour and another one sees you and you then go home, he/she will follow you back to Megaton and take all your stuff. Everytime I kill the BoS I loose my stuff in Magaton from my Lockers. XBOX360.....Another guy reported getting home in time to see a BoS leaving his house. Shite! I paid Moira Brown enough to have it kitted out, and spent enough time arranging all my loot.To get it all stolen, hundreds of items is a bit much! I going to war with the Bos next. --ThousandHoursFalloutThreeUK 06:41, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

-might have been paladin hoss. He is found in falls church there is a unmarked quest you can do The Lost Initiate where he becomes a temporary companion and this tends to glitch causing him to pop up in random places for example after sleeping in your megaton house or just waiting (you should be able to stop this by killing him and re-claiming you stuff off his body but i haven't confirmed this its just a guess) see Paladin Hoss bugs section--OUTLAW CptDan 05:02, May 17, 2011 (UTC)

Decline

It wasn't indicated in any game and the simple fact BoS is no longer the sole custodian of advanced technology dpesn't mean they declined. 91.122.0.254 17:52, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Comparisons in Popular Media

on the talk page it notes that the Brotherhood is close to certain Warhammer 40k soldiers, but I thought the classic comparison was to The Mobile Infantry of Heinlein's Starship Troopers.. which is, AFAIK, the progenitor of the sci-fi trend towards Power Armor-like constructions.

should this be noted or is it a bit too much like trivia?

I removed the reference to Warhammer. The fanboys on this Wiki need to stop thinking that every little coincidental similarity to their favorite video game/anime/movie was done intentionally. "Gruff space marines with cool tech" is a concept hardly unique to Warhammer.

It would be fine to note as trivia that the "original" powered armor concept came from the old Starship Troopers novel as long as the author doesn't imply the developers intentionally made the connection to the BoS. Powered armor is such a finely ingrained concept in modern pop culture that it would be illogical to assume a conscious nod to the book. ~ Unsigned 15 May 2009

The Mojave chapter at least draws a few more comparisons, like how they both live in chapters, follow a codex, have much more advanced tech than anyone else, the brotherhood scouts and space marine scouts seem to fulfill the same roll, the Brothergood Scribes and Tech Priests both (at least pretend to) understand tech and even wear red robes. They're both quite arrogant to outsiders, etc, etc. There's at least enough comparisons to think about it beyond "lol stupid fanboys". BaronPraxis8492 (talk) 18:13, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

Of note: an early sixties comic titled Strange Adventures once ran a series of stories based around a group called "the Atomic Knights," composed of a small band of radiation deflecting armor clad survivors battling ignorance, post-atomic squalor and weird radiation-induced monsters to rebuild the American way of life. Could this be considered partial inspiration for the Brotherhood of Steel, or at least credit as a side note? (Comic Descriptor: http://conelrad.com/books/flyleaf.php?id=230_0_1_0_M )(List of episodes and descriptions: http://darkmark6.tripod.com/atomicind.htm ) signed: 71.234.58.118 01:52, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

i seriously doubt that it was any sort of reference, but there are certain similarity between them, but more with the adeptus machnicus than the space marines, its very similar, a techno-religious group devoted to the recovery of ancient pre-[insert calamity here] and guarding the secrets of these technologies from the ignorant tribals, and preferring to keep as much technology as they can for themselves. again there are similarity's, but the likeliness that they are actual intentional references is slim to none. its not hard to see were people are coming from, but its just unlikely, has anyone bothered to ask however's idea fallout was?--Katikar 14:36, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

extermination of the bos *SPOLIERS

if you choose (*spolier*) to blow the citedal in broken steel ending,wich i did already, is it poissoable to finish of the bos for good or is that a not going to happen. it should be poissable since the brotherhood dont respawn in the wasteland or at least i dont think they do. do they?

The Pentagon may be destroyed but that doesn't mean every member of the DC BoS was in it. For that matter, at least the Midwest and California BoS are still out there with possibly other chapters in North America we haven't heard about yet. Also, we will have to wait for Fallout 4 (if that ever happens) to see if the Pentagon's destruction is made canon.

Inconsistency!

If the brotherhood ended up in the Capital Wasteland just a year before your birth, how is it that Star Paladin Cross talks about aiding your father in the wasteland? If the Brotherhood had previously assisted with Project Purity they would have had to been there for longer than a year or this is merely an inconsistency in the story. While its wholly possible in video game reasoning that the Brotherhood showed up, immediately hooked up with James, Dr. Li, and friends, then James knocked up Catherine right away, and the larger part of Project Purity was completed in about a year, then sure, w/e, but still pretty ridiculous.

By the time your outside they've been there for 20 years and it is never implied that the brotherhood of steel helped project purity originally, only during your involvement.

Hey, BoS arrived in CW in 2255, They are at the Citadel, they would PROBABLY notice a purifier being build across a body of water. You were born three years after the arrival of the BoS, and from there, they abandoned Proj. Purity after your birth, around the early 2260's (2261/2262)

I can't remember who says it, either madison li or james, but they state that the BoS were defending project purity until james left then they lost interest in it and abandoned it. Nick3258 (talk) 14:40, January 10, 2016 (UTC)

Main article logo

I have noticed that the logo/emblem used at the top portion of the page is the non-canon, fallout tactics version, with the large gear on the right side. I was wondering if someone would kindly flip it, such that it reflects fallout 1, 2, and 3, as opposed to Tactics. That is all.

Thanks, one user changed it some time ago and I didn't notice until now. Fixed. Ausir^(talk) 10:40, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

Not canon?

Unless it severely contradicts "official" canon, why aren't other fallout games considered canon? On some pages I've even seen Fo3 add-ons not considered "canon"

On what pages? FO3 add-ons are canon, even if I don't like it in some cases. And some games are not considered canon because the people in charge of the franchise decided not to count them as canon. Ausir^(talk) 18:37, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

yeah, its probably just fallout purist/extremists who don't like Fo3, or at least don't like that Bethesda made it, but do not be mistaken: it IS canon--Katikar 19:01, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

Warhammer 40k

alright I'm putting this down once and for all, although the Space Marines from Warhammer 40k the brotherhood of steel is and was NOT inspired by them there have been a grand multitude of interviews with those involved with the original fallout, if the space marines had inspired the BoS they would have mentioned it, stop putting it in the article the only proof is that they are similar thats it, that is ALL there is, so at the vary least if you are intent on putting it in the article, you start right here in the talk, under this post, and discuss it, untill an argument can be given conclusivly proving that the Space Marines are a direct inspiration for the BoS, it will be continually and conssistantly removed from the articleKatikar 11:53, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

Airships

It's never discussed exactly how the East coast BOS got to the east coast. I mean, they could have walked, but don't you think it's more likely they used airships, like the midwestern? Could the East coast be a part of the division that got separated from what became the midwest?67.221.89.35 16:30, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

in broken steel you can find a military truck with their logo. perhaps some of the pre-war military vehicles survived and they drove there? --Icommandoxx 18:16, February 13, 2011 (UTC)icommadoxx

Brotherhood

I was just wondering what form of government would the BOS be? You know, republic, democratic etc? 86.135.159.59 10:40, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Feudal, at best. The Brotherhood is a military order, ruled by a small circle of elders who are apparently chosen by other elders. It's not democratic, not by a long shot. _Tagaziel ^(call!) 12:21, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Weakened

In Fallout 3, the BoS have been downplayed strength wise, In the old days it spoke of one Paladin being able to wipe out hordes of enemies, now they can handle maybe.. 5 supermutants before dying, you think, any logical reasons? Zachariah Zuan 23:06, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Easy. Stupid recruits, bad weapons, and old-fashioned armor. Nitty ^Tok. 23:08, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

New BOS not good

I support the Outcasts 100%. If their ideas are not right, then how come in the West, where the BOS has stayed true, they are rapidly rebuilding civilization? For instance, the NCR. The New BOS may be protecting every single illeriterate group of tribesmen, but they are losing men and supplies in the progress. In my opinion, if the BOS stayed true, and protected only the biggest, most techonological advanced cities and towns, the Wasteland would have been long rebuilt by now.

Random person

The brotherhood on the west coast haven't been engaged in a war with a hostile and neverending supply of supermutants.

It has. Vault Dweller stormed Mariposa with the help of the Paladins. XEL 21:43, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

I Hate the East Coast BoS!

If you hate the Capital Wasteland BoS than you are not alone. I hate them because all of their soldiers treat people like me like shit and claim that they are saving my ass 24/7 when it's me who is actually helping the people in the Wastes instead of sitting around in a nice cushy fort with some fancy weapons.

Dude East Coast BoS are going to be the nicest they get West Coast BoS are major dicks (98.247.10.62 03:46, September 3, 2010 (UTC))

The East Coast "Brotherhood of Steel" are lead by a pussy who thinks, "Let's stop collecting weapons to destroy our enemies with and let's help a bunch of low-life, bedragled wasters who don't give a flying f%$k about it". In Fallout 3, I destroyed the East Coast BoS because they were not fit to carry the title "Brotherhood of Steel". At least the West Coast BoS knows what the deal is, "We discover tech so we may destroy our enemies and make them run like little girls as we gun them down like filthy dogs!"

Damn it, I wish you help the BoS in New Vegas, but help them like you can help the NCR, Caesar, House, etc. - Texas Ranger 19:12, November 13, 2010 (UTC)

BOS East Coast Strategy

Their military strategy is pathetic. They talk about saving the wasteland they're hardly protecting anything. If they were smart they would station paladins at settlements instead of protecting useless locations(ex: Pennsylvania Ave). Paladins shouldn't be stationed in D.C. It is suicide. They should consistently raid the D.C. ruins. Therefore they will not lose communications with their soldiers and their men will be well supplied. The only place they should fortify is GNR. That's it.

And if they were somewhat half logical, they would aid in the construction of new settlements and hoard roaming wastelanders into them, and fortify it.

I mean come on, their strategy is pure stupidity.

Veronica: So... what do you think of the Brotherhood of Steel? Courier: I heard they can shoot lasers out of their eyes!

Best low intelligence dialogue, ever.--Shadow 21:26, October 23, 2010 (UTC)

Any ways to gain faction rep after "Still in the Dark"

Are there any other ways to gain faction rep after "Still in the Dark"? P.S. I help Hardin become Elder and after waiting 5 in-game days, he still isn't. - Texas Ranger 22:09, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

Patrols

In the article it says that the BoS in New Vegas help patrol the Mojave if they side with the NCR. Anyone care to elaborate where these patrols might be? Because I haven't seen any. Smuff ^{[The cake is a lie.]} 22:48, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

They patrol the long-15, and help clear it out much like the NCR patrols, only they don't do it half-***ed.--Icommandoxx 18:27, February 13, 2011 (UTC)icommandoxx

notable members

shouldnt the lone wanderer be mentioned there? i mean, you can become a knight (or a paladin, im not sure)... and the courier can join them too [chosen one, vault dweller, forgot if you could join the BoS with them]

But some players don't, only in Tactics and Brotherhood of Steel are you required to be a member of the BoS. --Pongsifu 23:59, November 25, 2010 (UTC)

Major Fallout New Vegas Bug - Faction Armor Glitch Resulting in Hostility

There seems to be a major bug in Fallout New Vegas that can seriously ruin the game for you.

This has to do with faction standings and armor. When I approached the Brotherhood of Steel they were instantly aggressive towards me and my companions for no apparent reason. The same thing happened with the NCR at one point in the game. I tried wearing different armor and gear but nothing seemed to work.

The problem with this bug is that the game sometimes fails to register that you have removed faction specific armor. If you for example was wearing Legion Veteran Armor and then switched to Combat Armor, the game might still think that you are wearing the Legion faction armor. This means that any faction that is hostile towards the Legion will also attack you on sight even though you are no longer in disguise.

I think that this problem arises when you swich gear without unequipping it first. If you have both the faction specific armor and the non affiliated armor in you inventory and you then change from one to the other directly, the game does not register that you have removed the faction specific armor.

I'm not sure if this bug will stack all the armor that you have worn in the game but there is an easy way to solve this problem. You have to take every piece of armor that you have saved up in storage and then individually equip and unequip everything in your inventory, one by one, so that you get a message telling you that you are no longer in disguise.

This solved all the problems that I had with NCR and the Brotherhood of Steel (PS3).

Why does everyone hate the Brotherhood of Steel?

Every faction I met you name wants to destroy the Brotherhood of Steel? I know they can be dicks but they are not aggresive as the NCR or the Legion.--Helljumper 96 20:04, January 24, 2011 (UTC)helljumper96--Helljumper 96 20:04, January 24, 2011 (UTC)

well, if you keep mcnamara as the elder, the ncr wont destroy them. the ending says that they'll send patrols at I-15 and Highway-95 and the ncr will give the BoS their salvaged power armor. James Jr 13:56, January 25, 2011 (UTC)

No I dont mean that becuse I never use salvaged power armor I mean that they want to destroy them even if they dont have nothing to do with them like Mr House wanted to make them allies but still wants to destroy them even if they are dead in a hole and Caesar can't make a decision because of a tumor that makes him have headaches and not think but the BOS are great allies for their technological supremacy. --Helljumper 96 20:55, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

because, all the factions want the vegas strip. The BOS has a problem with that becuse they want the securitrons and the like.--Icommandoxx 18:36, February 13, 2011 (UTC)icommandoxx

The West Coast Brotherhood is in no shape to want the Securitrons on the strip, much less after they get the upgrade. It'd be something like this: "Oh, hello, mr Paladin, there are ten of you and you have power armour and gatling lasers? Oh, that's swell, we have them too! And 9mm machine guns! And grenade launchers! And missile launchers! And there are 30 of us! And all of us have the same, massive firepower!" Then, the Brotherhood gets owned. Hard. _Tagaziel ^(call!) 19:52, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

I like that tagaziel!!! --James Jr 12:04, February 28, 2011 (UTC)

Not if from the Capital Wasteland they send Liberty Prime all fixed. I dont think the securitrons would stand a chance --Helljumper 96 18:29, February 28, 2011 (UTC)

I don't really think they can fix it. They don't have the resources. And how they can bring it to the Mojave? Using vertibirds? I don't think they can lift it. And I don't think they have enough 'fuel' or whatever to bring Liberty Prime to the Mojave, it's too far away from DC.--James Jr 14:13, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

i think they maybe can because at the end of fallout 3 they give you a unmarked quest maybe giving rothchild all the cameras in the capitol wasteland would fix him or maybe not it would be very cool add-on for new vegas "the return of the brotherhood of stell" --Helljumper 96 01:30, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

Helljumper, get out, you can't spell "steel", get out idiot, you can't spell or use proper grammar, fallout wiki doesn't need people who can't spell.

$BrotherHoodOfSteel=stupid$

--USSRattachmentAmerica 15:05, April 10, 2011 (UTC)USSRattactmentAmerica

You know what's really quite humorous? MY gRAMMER IS COOL LOLL I hAV BEST rUn-0n s00ntence, you didn't 1337 SPEK LI4E ME 1 PWN YOU 1UMP HE4D, a4d every00ne is stOOpid" -- CoD addict (talk) - 16:17, April 10, 2011 (UTC)

In the House Resort there is a painting of Mr. House at the feet of what looks to be liberty prime, so he is mabey the fifth person in my guesse of who will be the Fallout 3 charachter to make an apearence.Backwater Rifle

11:17 (EST) April 10 2011

I recorrected Helljumper's grammar so he doesn't look a bit stupid.

Person above, PUT YOUR SIGNATURE ON, THIS IS A TALK PAGE.

--RedArmySacredWar 05:08, April 13, 2011 (UTC)

Going back to the debate over the cwbos coming to the mojave. I think it is very much possible that they do it. Historically speaking during the scourge of the pitt. The pitt is relatively close to the capital wasteland and while they bos may not have the purity they did in their ranks back then. I think they can make it hands down. Liberty prime will do most of the heavier lifting such as enclave, legion or whatever other encounters that are in post war america while the paladins would mop up. They also have bolstered their ranks with the local enlistees as long as the lyons prid. The most important reason they would make it is because of they're victory against the enclave which showed a massive flow of tech such as plasma weapons, key components for liberty prime. The enclave had a much more advanced power armor and who knows what rothschild could do with it. THey wont be wasting their time reverse engineering this tech but improving it. I do hope that they get back intouch with the west because Then they will able to find poseidon energy which will without a doubt insure the brotherhood securing the usa and the cavmen ncr out.--90.197.226.41 22:36, April 20, 2011 (UTC)

thats problaby because everytime you send robots, power, energy weapons you name it near the BoS they kill the person(s) who got it and take. i mean i know its about controling technology so it couldnt destroy us again, but WTF its not like they are taking a nuclear bomb with them or alien technology.

obvious bias

the CW BOS is listed in the same section as van buren offshoots and other non-canon factions...nice work. Sometimes the NMA slant here shines out too often

...as is the West-Coast BOS. YuriKaslov 20:29, March 3, 2011 (UTC)

BOS are evil, and USSR is great as a faction

The USSR should be a faction in Fallout 3 that is hostile to Raiders, BOS, Slavers, and religious groups in Fallout.

The BOS steal things, as one user said.

The BOS never share their water, they kill civilians.

They have big egos about themselves, and they use a overpowered mech which can't be killed.

They steal things because it's a hardcoded glitch which makes everyone take better equipment. This has been known to happen in megaton often. The BOS set up water caravans the capital wasteland with purified water. The west avoid killing unless its to gain new technology, the east is devoted to saving civilians. And that last parts pretty much true. And why would the USSR be a faction? The Union of Soviet Socialists is a location fromed by the comunist goverment, the US wasn't even at war with them in the game's timeline. Chaos ian7 15:04, April 8, 2011 (UTC)

Granted, the U.S.S.R. is cool and all, but it wouldn't make any sense for Soviets to be in the United States. Chinese spies made sense because we were in an actual war with them, but the U.S.S.R. was just a bystander on the outskirts of the American/Chinese conflict. Best regards, Kastera ^(talk) 04:40, April 9, 2011 (UTC)

Agreed with the topic creator.

--USSRattachmentAmerica 15:32, April 10, 2011 (UTC)

This goes to USSRattachemntAmerica; may I be the first to say that you may want to think of a different user name so you can agree with USSRmillitary6663 (a.k.a. yourself) without someone seeing through the ruse. My suggestion for agreeing with yourself; use a user name that doesn't have to do with the USSR, and use proper grammar, because as we all know, USSRmillitary6663 doesn't use it well. Best regards, Kastera ^(talk) 16:42, April 10, 2011 (UTC)

I think the next Fallout game should take place in (Once again) Washington or San Antonio. I mean, have you been to San Antonio? The City is just unbelievable and full of city limits.

i hate USSR in fact i hate communism and socialism plus the FO 3 BoS is not really BoS they are nice to civialians and freakin' help a hole damn lot if you played the game and understood it you would know that they can't give water to every body because they dont have enough caps to pay for caravans pay for ammo ( which the FO3 BoS buys cause they aint really BoS they're nice to civilians) pay for weapons pay for repairing them and all kind of stuff

Um, what?

Should this even be in the page?

"All of these, except the 2nd and 3rd pictures, are great." and "How punk ass is this picture?"

They don't look like they would be on a wiki page, more like a profile page.Donovans Wrench 18:37, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

Those got taken down. A new user doesn't know how to edit pages whatsoever, so here's hoping he learns quickly. --Kastera April 24, 2011, 21:30 (UTC)

Best and Brightest, or Hereditary Tribe?

The article claims two things about the Brotherhood. While these are not truly contradictory, they seem to be somewhat inconsistent.

1. "The ranks of the Brotherhood of Steel are generally recognized as being composed of the best and the brightest remaining to humanity."

2. "The vast majority of BoS members are born into the Brotherhood - they very rarely accept outsiders into their ranks."

Generally, if you have a group of the "best and brightest," you get them by being exclusive, getting a large pool of potential members, and selecting only a few. That's how how the National Academy of Sciences gets its members, how the Navy SEALs get their members, how Stanford gets its students, etc.

If the Brotherhood is mostly composed of people who are in the Brotherhood because they were born into it, the Brotherhood will be pretty close to average, with a few best and brightest and a few idiots, along with a competent but unexceptional majority.

It is probably fair to say that the Brotherhood members are better-educated than the average Wastelander. For instance, probably no one in the Brotherhood is illiterate, and most are at least educated to the point of the equivalent of college. In addition, the resources of the Brotherhood probably means they rarely suffer childhood malnutrition compared to other wastelanders, which has a negative impact on brain development. Still, that puts them at about the level of late-20th/early-21st century Americans and other "first world" people like Japanese, French, etc, on average, which seems a bit of a stretch to call "best and brightest."

One might postulate that BoS members are, thanks to the original founding group, just genetically superior to most people, but there's no real reason to think that's the case. The group was founded by U.S. soldiers and their families. Soldiers are, on average, not idiots, but not geniuses either: it's a fairly average group. 30 on the AFQT isn't a high bar to pass, and it's unlikely that the Sino-American war was a time of particularly high standards for recruitment (even if the US didn't resort to outright conscription). The West-Tek facility also included scientists, who may have been a bit smarter on average, but Maxson killed them all for crimes against humanity. Even if they were all the best and brightest of the US army in 2077, regression to the mean would have meant that by 2161 the descendants of the 2077 group would be maybe slightly smarter than average. Intelligence is partially genetic, but it isn't handed from one generation to the next like a family heirloom.

One might say that the Brotherhood is actually very selective even among their own descendants: i.e., Brotherhood couples have very large families, but only a few are allowed to stay in the Brotherhood. For instance, a Brotherhood family might have eight kids, and only the two "best and brightest" will be in the Brotherhood as adults. The other six? Sent into the Wastes? Killed? I don't know. Doesn't seem probable.

One might also claim that "they very rarely accept outsiders into their ranks" is only based on the frequency with which they accept applicants relative to the number of applicants, not their actual composition. I.e., if a Brotherhood chapter somewhere has 150 people in it, then they might actually be 50 born brothers and 100 outside recruits. However, if 5,000 outsiders apply to join the Brotherhood of Steel, and only 100 get in, then from the perspective of an outsider applicant, the Brotherhood "very rarely accepts outsiders into their ranks," (the odds are 50 to 1 against, after all) even though looking at the chapter's actual composition, it's mostly outsiders. However, that's not what the article actually says: namely "The vast majority of BoS members are born into the Brotherhood."

Anyway, I realize that maybe I'm putting too much analysis into two lines, but still: can this be reconciled?

Personally, I'd lean toward just dropping the claim that they're the best and brightest -- they're a hereditary tribe, with abilities that are fairly close to average, who happen to be sitting on a big hoard of technology and happen to be well-organized, militant, and have technology-oriented cultural mores -- but that's just me.

Idhan 06:34, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

this site is missing npc's that are in the Mojave brotherhood of steel chapter

in the bunker there are unnamed scribes, knights but I've looked for a few days threw out this site and i have found no base id's or even pictures for them you have the unnamed paladins but not the knights or scribes

Questionable Development entry?

I just noticed the following on the article page:

They also appear to based off the Knights Templar, who collected books unlike the Brotherhood.

Is is just me, or does this strain the limits of notability? Is it possible someone saw this "association" based on the fact that one of Lyons' scribes will pay handsomely for pre-War books?

I don't see any more evidence of them being based off the Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon (Templars) than I do of them being modeled after the Swiss Guard, the British Navy, the Salvation Army or a Carnegie Library.

If nobody objects (or comes up with a canon source for the reference), I want to pull it; I don't think it adds anything worthwhile.

Thanks! UncleBubba 22:49, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

Is the East Coast Brotherhood unnecessarily diminished in the article?

The East Coast BOS are a major plot-driving force in Fallout 3 - or - a full 25% of the main series, yet their brief description is basically hidden in between non-canon information without even a subheading - under the "divisions and locations" section.

It seems almost personal at this point... Instead of lashing out at Bethesda's writers for their treatment of the East Coast chapter - why can it not be celebrated? Historically, opposing factions break off from movements and societies all the time. It's commonplace - nay - expected.

Instead of sweeping it under the rug in the main article, wouldn't at least its own heading make sense - i.e. - East Coast Brotherhood - or whatever, in the main BOS article? (I realize there's a whole, well-written article chronicling the East Coat BOS, I'm just pointing out the awkward and diminishing juxtaposition in the main article). Thanks for your time.

Person of Refinement 19:19, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

The irony!

The major irony of it all is that the Midwestern BoS or the Capital Wasteland BoS came into the territories of the Mojave or Core chapters, the members of the rogue chapters would *probably* not be put up against the wall... Statistics considered... ;-) Quite apropos, considering the statements of the Outcasts!

Colorado Chapter?

Could Van Buren's Colorado Brotherhood of Steel be counted as a separate chapter? They have their own elder, their own base, and they're far away from New California. "Space. The final frontier." ~The-Artist-64 (talk) 02:26, November 3, 2015 (UTC)The-Artist-64

Ranks

Can we have some sort of Rank hierarchy and a list of all them (Known ones)? For instance with FO4 there's quite a few more given out, Initiate>Knight, Sentinel, Paladin, Elder, Scribe, Knight Lancer etc. to name a few. can't remember the others off the top of my head.

NCR Power Arnour

Why this is even in the BoS notes is curious, but besides, the following makes an appearance.

"They are among a select group of factions that use power armor (and that can train others to use it) en masse. Besides the Brotherhood, the Enclave and the NCR both have stockpiles of power armor, as well as the elite soldiers to man them. Due to the difficulty with maintaining power armor far from specialized bases and their overstretched supply lines, the NCR in the Mojave Wasteland wear non-functioning power armor rather than fully functional suits."

The idea that the NCR is sitting on a stockpile of functional power armour and trained soldiers is unsubstantiated and directly contradicted by multiple characters within new vegas.

Here's how Hanlon alone describes it

"They have the best equipment the NCR can get its hands on, power armor salvaged from our war with the Brotherhood. Techs strip out the joint servos so you don't need special training to wear it. It feels like you're carrying a brahmin on your back, but it can take a heck of a lot of punishment."

It seems absolutely ridiculous for Hanlon to describe Salvaged armour as the best the NCR has if they also have a bunch of active power armour. Additionally, this suggests that supply issues would not be the reason it is used as well as making it clear the NCR doesn't have the elite soldiers capable of using it, as he explicitly says it was done so you don't need special training.

As such, the above note that appears on the BoS page is completely unsubstantiated and references to the NCR need to be removed from it, or else it needs to be explained that the NCR only uses nonfunctional power armour and does not have functional power armour (in which case we even need to add references to the other groups that use the playing in such a way, such as the Legion. It's more sensible just to remove the reference to the NCR entirely because NCR Salvaged Power Armour is not power armour anymore, it's just the playing strapped on to someone.)

Military Roster

I was hoping to know what the Brotherhood of Steel's distinct unit typos are, their distinct soldiers, vehicles, aircraft, etc.. If anyone knows all the different types that would be appreciated, it is for a project I am doing.--CNBA3 (talk) 16:37, November 17, 2018 (UTC)

I dont know all of their unit types, but Brotherhood of Steel/Ranks will cover most of the soldiers. Also, in terms of vehicles, vertibirds and airships are an obvious choice, but the semicanon Brotherhood of Steel (Midwest) used a much wider variety of vehicles you may want to look into.Aiden4017 (talk) 23:50, November 17, 2018 (UTC)

BOS did not start in 2077

Brotherhood of Steel was not formed in 2077.

This article's purpose is pinpoint the date at which Maxson's group of Army renmants formally become the Brotherhood of Steel.

Preceding and directly following the events of the Great War (20-27 Oct 2077, Nov 2077), dated logs and correspondences from Maxson are labelled Captain Maxson, implying that he has not yet formed the Brotherhood with himself as High Elder. #1

Text from Fallout 1 and the Fallout Bible do not give a concrete date for the start of the BOS. The Fallout Bible gives Nov 2077 as the date for Maxson occupying the Lost Hills Bunker, and then says that this bunker will later become the HQ for the Brotherhood of Steel. Maxson is not described as Elder until his death in 2135. #2

In the FO76 Holotape "Formation of the Brotherhood of Steel", Maxson pitches the Brotherhood idea to the Thunder in Appalachia from Lost Hills. The broadcast begins with Hailey Takano referring the Maxson as Captain. #3

By 3 Jan 2081, E Fisher deserts the "Thunder" at Camp Venture. He is described as an Army Ranger and Lizzie Taggerdy as a Lt. Throughout the Camp Venture occupation by the Thunder, communication with Maxson at Lost Hills is maintained with Maxson being a Captain. #4

By 2 Nov 2081, a training course for civilians documents are archived at Camp Venture by Eddie Hayes. (Not Scribe Hayes). #5

The first concrete date using BOS designation was 20 June 2082, in the FO76 cut note "Squire Asher's Journal" #6

This leaves the window for the official start of the Brotherhood of Steel to be between 2 Nov 2081 and 20 June 2082.

I will be rectifying the start date on this page to read 2081-2082, from 2077. I ask that you do not undo my correction, as the Fallout 76 timeline supersedes the Interplay Fallout timeline. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scribe-Howard (talk • contribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

This largely depends on what you mean by "formation". The article as it stands takes a material approach, rather than a formal one, i.e. when the group that would formally become the Brotherhood separated, rather than when it was formally announced as formed. _Tagaziel ^(call!) 08:53, June 23, 2020 (UTC)