Talk:Big Brained

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Bugs? Edit

It seems that when I have this perk, it never works properly. I'll wear armor with a DT of greater than 10 and instead of adding on 10% of the DT, it seems to add less than 1 DT every time. Has this happened to anyone else?

It's happend to me as well. Wearing the Sneak Suit Mk II (DT 14), armour implant(DT 4), and reinforced spine(DT 2), I have a total DT of 20. With this perk, I get 20.4, rather than the 22 I should have. I even wore a full set of reinforced combat armour, and it still only added 0.4. it seems to work as stated when DT is less than 10.

Well I have an idea. When you use player.getav damageThreshold command, it returns the value of DT that has character, but without DT of armor that you're wearing. I think this perk is using this command to calculate DT. If true, this may be the cause of what you noticed. Can anyone confirm this? Rzeźnik 06:09, July 27, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, that's pretty much that, the perk only add 10% of DT to the amount of DT the character when naked, and since the highest the courier can get without armor is 12 DT, it only add the minimum of one point, so 13DT while naked.

The "Head can't be crippled" function does not work for me, I went after the Legendary Bloatfly with this perk, and on the first shot my head was crippled and I died. Silverscreen 02:20, July 31, 2011 (UTC)

Well, strange at least. My DT stats from the pipboy (not from console, if there is a command for it) (naked + no helmet / Vera's outfit + no head / naked + T51 helmet / sierra madre reinf armor + no helmet / SM Reinf. Armor + T51 helmed: Brainless & SpineLess: 12, 17, 19, 29, 35; Big Brained & Spineless: 12, 18, 20, 29, 35; Brainless & Reinf. Spine: 13, 15, 19, 30.1, 36.1; Big Brained & Reinf. Spine: 13, 15, 18, 30, 36. Interesting at least... AkosLukacs 17:27, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

My DT with Big Brained, Sub-Dermal Armor, Toughness x2, Reinforced Spine, Remnants Power Armor & Helmet is 78.4, but when I take off Remnants Power Armor/Helmet and equip Ulysses' Duster for example my DT doesn't lower to the correct rating. Can anyone else confirm this?

Can anyone confirm this? Edit

The notes section of the pages says: "Since the +10% DT is based on your base DT (without any armor equipped) and the maximum base DT obtainable is 12, you will get at maximun +1.2 DT. "

As far as I can tell, this is not correct at all. player.getav damageThreshold (or getbaseav) returns the total damage threshold of your armor and NOT, like others have suggested, your "naked" DT. In fact, it doesn't return any DT bonuses you get from perks at all. If you are wearing an armor with DT 15, it returns 15, add 1 rank in toughness, and it still returns 15. So, as far as I can tell, the notes section has it completely reversed, ONLY DT from armor is taken into account.

Big brained gives +1 DT if player.getav damageThreshold is less than 5 and does DT * 1.1 if it's 5 or greater. The +1 DT bonus is applied correctly, when applicable, but the 10% bonus doesn't seem to work (correctly) at all. Dwaz 16:53, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

DT * 1.1 is 10%. Mictlantecuhtli 19:29, August 8, 2011 (UTC)
I realize that, I meant that the 10% bonus doesn't actually work; nothing is added to your DT. E.g. if you have the remnants power armor (DT 28) + helmet (DT 8), you'd expect to have (28 + 8) * 1.1 = 39.6 DT, but you only get 36 DT. The additive bonus works, the multiplicative bonus doesn't. Dwaz 20:27, August 8, 2011 (UTC)
I'll add in a confirmation to the two things said above: GetAV DamageThreshold returns amount added by armor only, and the effect of multiplying by 1.1 seems to fail entirely. Thus, if your armor has less than 4 DT or less, this perk will add 1. If your armor has 5 DT or more, this perk adds no DT at all. In testing, I can confirm this is not a display error: the multiplied DT really is just not added at all. I'll see if I can together a fix for this and stick it on the Nexus.--SushiSquid 21:57, August 12, 2011 (UTC)
Okay, a link to the new bugfix has been added on the main page. Using the bugfix will cause the perks to function as their descriptions claim.--SushiSquid 00:29, August 13, 2011 (UTC)

If DT given by perks does not show up when using player.getav damageThreshold in the console, how are people confirming that +1 is given when player.getav damageThreshold < 5 but not +10% when player.getav damageThreshold >= 5? BrokenDetonatorCollar 01:26, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

The +1 when under 5 DT for Big Brained or 10 DT for Brainless shows up in your Pip-Boy. Of course, because that isn't always a sure thing, I also tested them by taking damage. I can confirm that, as said above by Dwaz, the DT is added when under those values, and you get no DT whatsoever if you're above those values. If you have the PC version, just use my fix to make the perks work correctly. If you have a console version, then always take Brainless. It takes higher DT before Brainless loses its bonus and at least you'll have more addiction resistance.--SushiSquid 00:40, August 15, 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the confirmation and the fix. I'd thrown together a fix myself which wasn't entirely dissimilar (even ran into the same problem with Toughness at rank 2). Although I didn't know that fractional DT didn't work, so I'd attempted to get those working as well. Dwaz 09:15, August 15, 2011 (UTC)
Try making a clothing with a fractional DT value and equipping it. You'll get any whole number of DT on it, but anything after the decimal is ignored. Not rounded to the nearest, just totally ignored. The Pip-Boy claims it's not there. Even though damage can be a float, this fraction won't affect damage. Even though GetAV DamageThrehold displays armor DT, it won't report fractions. Anything after the decimal is literally ignored by the game for nearly all purposes. But fractions will still affect AI. I use this trick in the Energy Shields mod I'm working on. I assigned each shield 0.01 DT per rank. By having DT at all, it forces the AI to evaluate the items when considering what to equip, and the higher DT per rank makes them always want to equip the best one.--SushiSquid 17:23, August 15, 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for pointing out that the DT display was in the Pipboy. To clarify for other readers: the issue is with the order in which the perks are added to the player. To see this for yourself, take a player with no DT perks and give them Combat Armor (DT 15). Now in the console first add the ImplantDTPerk (Subdermal Armor +4 DT) and then the Big Brained perk. When you check the DT in the Pipboy you will see 5.0 DT with the combat armor off, 19.0 DT with it on. Now if you remove both perks and then add Big Brained first, and then add ImplantDTPerk second, the Pipboy DT will show 5.0 DT with the combat armor off, and 19.4 DT with it on. Toughness works also, although the 2nd rank breaks and doesn't reflect in the calculations. Creating a rank 2 of Big Brained with the same properties as rank 1 will make it do the calculations correctly for Toughness rank 2. A messy situation indeed. BrokenDetonatorCollar 00:47, August 16, 2011 (UTC)
Perks only evaluate their conditions in GameMode, not MenuMode. Your Pip-Boy is MenuMode, so changing armor won't cause Big Brained to reevaluate your DT until you close the Pip-Boy. I'm not aware of this perk actually having a display error. It certainly doesn't work correctly, but at least it lets you know. Because perks only update in GameMode, even with my fix for this perk, you'll still need to close and reopen the Pip-Boy to be sure of your DT after switching armors.--SushiSquid 01:39, August 16, 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I've seen the Pipboy reporting some weird DT with Big-Brained/Brainless as well, but it was highly inconsistent. With Big-Brained, all DT perks (DT 12 total) and Joshua Graham's armor (DT 15), most of the time it would show 27.0 DT, but occasionally it would show 27.6 DT. Sometimes removing/equipping armor would cause it to appear, other times it wouldn't. Saving/loading also caused it to trigger sporadically. I didn't comment on it, because it was quite rare, incredibly inconsistent and the number added didn't make any sense anyway. Dwaz 07:49, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

The note comparing this with Brainless seems misleading. If there isn't an actual difference in damage mitigated between 5% and 10% of 12, it should say so. 21:25, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

Fixed / changed in the latest patch Edit

I realize these discussions are quite old, but I've done some research and the perk seems to behave in an entirely different way now. It now always adds +1 to your DT, then adds on the 10%. My own personal math, as well as checking the perks functionality in the GECK has supported this. See below for mathematical and GECK evidence.

My character has Both ranks of Toughness, Subdermal implants, Reinforced Spine, and this Perk. Naked, that yields a DT of (6 + 4 + 2 + 1) * 1.1 = 14. My characters naked DT is indeed 14. Next, when wearing Remnants Power Armor + Helmet, we can add those into the equation. (6 + 4 + 2 + 28 + 8 + 1) * 1.1 = 53.9. My characters DT with armor is indeed 54.

Further investigation to the perks actual functionality in GECK reveal 3 functions. Firstly, there is an Entry Point data type of Modify Damage Threshold (defender), adding a value of 1. Secondly, there is another of the same entry, except this one multiplies the value by 1.1. Then theres the modifier of addiction chance by 0.9.

So in conclusion, I'll be editing the page for clarification.-- 09:00, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

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