Still in the Dark
Elder McNamara, behind his desk
You took an extreme risk in coming here. My policy towards trespassers has not been... lenient.”— Elder McNamara
|Side Quest: Still in the Dark|
|Locate the Brotherhood of Steel in Hidden Valley bunker.|
|Speak with Paladin Ramos.|
|Speak with Elder McNamara.|
|Retrieve 3 holotapes from fallen Brotherhood paladins.||IF entrance was not given by Veronica: Deal with the NCR Ranger.|
|Return to Elder McNamara, and give him the 3 holodisks.||Speak with Elder McNamara.|
|Meet with 3 Brotherhood scouts and obtain their reports.|
|Give Elder McNamara the 3 scout field reports.|
|Retrieve the parts for the air filtration system.|
|Return to Hidden Valley and give the parts to Lorenzo.|
|Reward: 1000 XP, BoS fame, 1400 caps and Brotherhood safehouse key|
|Leads to: Eyesight to the Blind|
Still in the Dark is a quest obtained inside the Brotherhood of Steel, western compound's Hidden Valley bunker. To gain access to the interior of this bunker, the Courier needs to either have a Lockpick skill of 100 (Very Hard) or perform certain other actions to be able to interact with the intercom, such as:
- Finding any one of the three holotapes on dead Brotherhood of Steel paladins.
- Getting far enough in any faction's storyline to be asked to find the Brotherhood of Steel.
- Having Veronica as a companion.
- Getting two playbacks from ED-E will eventually let Senior Knight Lorenzo manage to hack into ED-E's communication systems, and asks the Courier to find a Brotherhood patrol so they can have a look at ED-E's databanks.
Using the BOS password or picking the lock will cause a Brotherhood of Steel squad to appear and confiscate the Courier's entire inventory. A short scene follows in which the Courier is questioned by Senior Paladin Ramos about the password itself. A meeting with Elder McNamara follows and the first quest is assigned.
- Note: If entry is gained with Veronica as a companion, certain parts of the quest line are omitted. The Courier's gear is not confiscated, there is no explosive collar, and the first quest is skipped.
The Elder will explain the secretive nature of the location. The Courier is fitted with an explosive collar, which will detonate after passing beyond a certain range of the area.
- The first task is to remove Ranger Dobson who has set up shop in a nearby bunker. Success is rewarded with a removal of the collar, free movement about the bunker, and the next quest.
- Dobson can be convinced to leave by passing a Speech check (50), and good reputation with the NCR.
- The Courier can also ask about his radio, wait until daylight when he leaves the bunker, select his radio and choose the option to smash it. Smashing the radio with Dobson in the room will make him turn hostile.
- The radio can also be rigged to explode. When he returns, he will go fiddle with the radio and meet a quick death. If the ranger is in the room while the radio is being rigged, he will notice what was done and will confront the Courier. Passing a Speech check (40) will lead to the ranger blowing himself up the next time he uses the radio.
- Reveal the location of the Brotherhood of Steel to the NCR Ranger, and he will then remove the collar from the Courier, but will be ambushed by Brotherhood of Steel Paladins. If the ranger is saved, NCR fame is awarded, but the quest will fail.
- The final option is to kill him.
- The second task is to locate several patrols that have gone missing. The paladins (Raseleanne, Hughes and Fairbanks), must be brought back, or if found dead, their mission holotapes returned.
After exiting the Elder's chamber, the Courier is confronted by Head Paladin Hardin who believes the Elder's policy of keeping them isolated from the outside world will be their doom, and wants help in ousting Elder McNamara. He asks the Courier to find out more about what leads to an Elder being replaced and requests an update on all the quests given by the Elder. These are all marked as optional parts of the same quest.
Obtaining the holotapesEdit
Once finished with the tour, enter the door to the left in the Planetarium and up the stairs to get the keycard. Go back to the first room and through the locked door using the card. Find the door to the second floor and take the first door on the left. Hack the terminal (very easy), beside a Nikola Tesla and You, and select the first option which gives unlimited access to the second floor. Find the door heading to the third floor and enter. If a Luck check (Luck 7) or an Intelligence check (Intelligence <4) given by a security robot is not passed, it will tell the Courier that they must leave in 30 seconds. Search the Paladins near the rubble and leave (there is also a 3rd Level Security Pass located in Piers Isley briefcase, next to his skeleton).
The location of the paladin can change from game to game because of the artillery the boomers fire when you first approach Nellis. Here is one probable location: After the boomers stop bombing, stand at the entrance to Nellis. Head SSW up the hill and pass between the car and road barricade. There is a bombed house directly ahead. Continue SSW down the road to the house next door. There is a backyard behind that house bordered by a wall with ornamental decorations. In the backyard, there is a crater with a car in it. The paladin should be in or nearby that crater.
To pass the bomber, don't do as the note says. Just run left toward the fence staying as close as possible to the rocks and go along the fence to reach the gate.
After exiting the Hidden Valley Bunker, aim directly in between NE and E on the Pip-Boy compass. Follow this to a hole in the fence and follow the trail left to Black Mountain. It is possible to access the cage from Black Mountain with a Lockpick skill of at least 75. The gate is just behind the radio station. This is where Moe (and possibly 5-6 additional centaurs) is located, in and around an irradiated crater (+1-11 Rad/sec). The paladin is at the bottom of the crater.
Return to the bunker and hand over the tapes to McNamara, or talk to Head Paladin Hardin who will accept the holotapes and use them as evidence to oust McNamara.
(Optional) If the Courier chooses to help Head Paladin Hardin, start by researching previous Elders' dismissals in the Scribe archive datastore. Doing this requires the problem with the Hidden Valley computer virus to be resolved. Speak with Scribe Ibsen about fixing the virus. After the virus is isolated, consult the datastore, then talk to Paladin Ramos about 'The Chain that Binds'. He will authorize access to this information in the datastore. Return to the archives and read about 'The Chain That Binds'. Talk to Hardin about this new-found information. He will say that things will take a few days. The screen will go black, and when the scene resumes, he is now Elder Hardin. This will effectively conclude the quest, eliminating the need for further steps. Hardin will give the Courier a key to the Brotherhood of Steel safehouse.
- It is still possible to become a paladin without completing this optional quest: Wait a few days after finishing this quest then speak to McNamara again to be given the quest Eyesight to the Blind.
- If McNamara is ousted, it is not possible to peacefully resolve the conflict between the Brotherhood and the NCR during the main NCR quest For the Republic, Part 2.
- There is a way to oust McNamara and have a peaceful outcome. However, after talking to Hardin and beginning the process of overthrowing McNamara, simply don't go back to the bunker until after speaking to Moore about the Brotherhood. Hardin doesn't "officially" become Elder until the Courier returns to the bunker.
- Favoring Hardin will result in lower reputation than favoring McNamara, but all the benefits are still received (safehouse, recycling ammunition box, etc.).
- After joining the BoS, Hardin addresses the Courier as "brother", not outsider.
- The completion of this quest does not reward the Courier with power armor training. The follow-up quest, Eyesight to the Blind, must also be completed.
After giving McNamara the holotapes, he will ask the Courier to find 3 scouts.
Head to each scout and start a conversation; the first option should mention "Are the bears still hunting?". Choose this to receive the scouts' reports. Collect all three and give them to McNamara.
The first scout is located on the northeast end of the NCR Correctional Facility, relatively close to the facility and relatively low to the ground. He is just outside the fence bordering the facility. After asking him if the bears are still hunting, he will report that he's been watching the NCRCF for a while now, and is confused as to how the NCR has let the Powder Gangers remain loose and in control of the jail for this extended length of time without any attempt at retaking the prison. Or, if the NCR has retaken the prison, will express his surprise that it took them so long.
The second scout is on the far northeast side of Nipton, quite far off and very high up. The water tower in Nipton is visible far off ahead on the right side of the town of Nipton. Head north by northeast from the water tower and scale the mountain (between and a little north of the Coyote Den and the Hidden Supply Cave), and remember that it is not close to the town. When inquired about the hunting bears, he will give his report on the brutal attack on the town of Nipton by Caesar's Legion, and the fact that it happened so deep in NCR territory. With low reputation with Caesar's Legion, Legionary assassins may spawn around this area.
The third scout is easier to find than the second; he is located to the southwest end of the NCR Camp Forlorn Hope. He is up on a rock overlooking the valley on the southern side of the camp, in plain view of the Ranger tower on the far south side of the camp. The rock which the scout is on is not adjacent to the rocks surrounding the camp; there is a large gap in between the rock that the scout is on, and the Ranger tower on the southern side of the camp. The rock is approximately the same elevation as the ranger tower, although slightly higher in elevation. He cannot be seen from the Ranger tower; go up the rock to find him. His report is on the town of Nelson, and the NCR defeat there.
Return to the bunker and give the reports to the Elder. He will ask the Courier to speak to Senior Knight Lorenzo about repairing the air filtration system.
Fixing the Air Filtration SystemEdit
- Note: Using the elevator in this vault will make traveling much quicker (requires 50 Repair to fix).
The 6 HEPA 20 cartridge filters are in a locker on the 2nd Level - Oxygen Recycling, in the same level where you find Keely after you rescue her in the side quest There Stands the Grass. The filters are only accessible via the caves because debris blocks the doorway to the room they are located in.(Through the door that says "key required", with a terminal next to it, you must first acquire the keycard located below)
Firstly, navigate towards the 4th Level - Common Areas. Head into the large area and drop down to the level below. From here, go through the door labeled "Quarters." An average lock is on this door, but can be bypassed by using the terminal in the Overseer's office on the 4th floor. Be wary of the corridor, as there are several spore carrier savages. A Vault 22 cave door keycard is in the first room on the left (the one with a baby carriage and crib) with a couple spore carrier savages. Look on the shelves to the right of the room. The Vault 22 Cave Door Keycard is on the second shelf from the bottom.
When you have obtained the keycard, head back up to 3rd Level - Food Production and enter the room with a terminal and the cave door (the door cannot be lockpicked and requires the keycard). Use the terminal on the left to unlock the door.
Once you enter the cave, take your first right and head up that path. You will eventually come to a wooden door labeled Oxygen Recycling; enter this door. You will find 6 HEPA 20 cartridge filters in a locker here.
Finally, go back into the cave and retrace your steps to go back to the first level "Entrance Hall", and proceed to the vault exit.
Alternatively, take the lift down to Pest Control, turn left up the stairs to a door to Food Production. You'll find yourself in some caves. Go up the slope taking the first right, following this until you get to the door to Oxygen Recycling.
- Note: The Vault 3 maintenance key can be obtained from Daniel in the Living Quarters. The maintenance key may also be obtained from Ranger Bryce Anders if the Bounty Killer quest has been activated.
Upon entering the vault via the control panel next to the door labeled "Vault 3 recreation center", in the south Vegas ruins, you will encounter a Fiend who asks your business inside the vault:
- If you have been given a package to deliver to Motor-Runner by Diane as part of the Aba Daba Honeymoon quest and are wearing a Great Khan outfit the Fiend will assume you are there to deliver the next shipment of drugs from the Khans. After a brief exchange the Vault's inhabitants will become friendly and you will be allowed to pass.
- If you can pass the Speech check (64), she will be persuaded that you are a Great Khan selling the Fiends' chems. Just follow the main halls and you will end up in the Motor-Runner's room. The reverse pulse cleaner will be in a locker in the same room as Motor-Runner and will not be considered "stolen" if you take it.
- If you cannot pass the speech check, then the Fiends in the vault will turn hostile. Head to the southern part of the map and look for the door to the Living Quarters. Head left and (after dodging some traps) enter the door titled Recreation Area. After speaking with the ranger either convince him to go help you kill the fiend leader or just kill him for the maintenance room key. If you choose to free the prisoners, one of them will give you the password to the Overseer's Quarters.
NOTE: If you've already beat Vault 3, or if you simply can't find it, it is in a locker on the left wall of the throne room of Motor-Runner in the Maintenance Wing. Directions: Fast travel to Vault 3, enter Vault 3, turn left, follow the hall down the stairs, take a right, follow to the end, take another right, follow to the end and down the stairs, congratulations you are at the maintenance wing. Go to the far last room where Motor-Runner resides, which is a dead end in the maintenance wing, and the reverse pulse cleaner is in the first of the two lockers on the left.
You will find the differential pressure controller in a locker under water in the flooded section of the lower level. It's helpful to have the rebreather from the Boomers quest Volare! for this. Go towards the overseer's office but before you reach it, take the turn towards the utility room and head down the stairs into the flooded hallway, keep going and take the first room on your right and it's in the locker on the right hand side of the room. See the quest Democracy Inaction for a detailed guide.
Here's a quick run down: (Note: there are a couple of bark scorpions, mantises, and giant rats upon entering the vault.)
When you enter the vault open the first door. - Take the first door to your right. - Go right again down the stairs - Walk past the 2 closed doors and go down the stairs - Go straight and follow the stairs downwards into the living quarters. - Follow the stairs down until you get in the big room with 3 routes. - Take the door with ADMIN written on top - At the end of the hall take a right to the Overseer's office - Take the door to the lower levels follow the steps down - Before you enter the Overseers office take a right - Until there is a sign with UTILITY take a right again and follow to the end of the hall ignoring the 2 doors. - this is the flooded area, yet it is not completely flooded so you can breath easily by swimming to the top. - However you do take radiation ticks. - Swim down the stairs, take a left and take the first room on your right. In this room you will find the Differential Pressure Controller in a locker to the right of the entrance. (To the left of the entrance is a first aid box containing random aid items).
Once you have all three items return to Hidden Valley and tell Lorenzo. He will tell you to return to Elder McNamara. You will receive 1000 XP and a Brotherhood safehouse key in return. Upon re-entering the Hidden Valley bunker you will have access to a special footlocker by the entrance that re-stocks energy weapon ammunition every time you re-enter the room (A Brotherhood scribe will speak to you and tell you, causing a box to appear there).
Quest stages (For use with the setstage console command)Edit
|1||Player snuck in and got caught by Ramos, who takes him/her to Elder McNamara.|
|2||Player used a password found on one of the dead patrols, and is now directed by Ramos to speak to Elder McNamara.|
|3||Player entered with Veronica, and is now directed to see Elder McNamara.|
|10||Player either snuck in or used a password, and has now been tasked with proving him/herself by dealing with the Ranger who's set up shop topside.|
|15||The player has dealt with the ranger and returned, and Elder McNamara has asked that he/she come talk to him in the command room about something confidential.|
|20||Having proven him/herself or entered with Veronica, the player is tasked to find all of the missing Brotherhood Patrols, which are located in Black Mountain, REPCONN HQ, and near Nellis.|
|30||Now McNamara wants the player to retrieve the reports of scouts sent to investigate the state of the NCR. The scouts can be found near NCRCF, Nipton, and Forlorn Hope.|
|40||McNamara confides to the player that the bunker's systems are failing, and sends the player to find the components to fix them.|
|100||After dutifully completing all of McNamara's missions, the Brotherhood decides to once again emerge from their isolation, still led by Elder McNamara.|
|101||After the player reports the chapter's peril to Hardin, the Head Paladin calls for a vote of no faith in McNamara's leadership, resulting in his demotion into a knight and Hardin's assumption of the title.|
|200||The quest failed, likely because Elder McNamara died.|
|1||Speak to Elder McNamara|
|2||Deal with an NCR Ranger who is camping in one of the bunkers of Hidden Valley|
|3||Return to Elder McNamara with news that the ranger has been dealt with.|
|4||Speak to Elder McNamara in the command room.|
|5||Find the missing Brotherhood patrol at REPCONN HQ and retrieve their mission holotape.|
|6||Find the missing Brotherhood patrol at Nellis AFB and retrieve their mission holotape.|
|7||Find the missing Brotherhood patrol at Black Mountain and retrieve their mission holotape.|
|8||(Optional) Talk to Senior Paladin Ramos on Hardin's behalf.|
|9||(Optional) Look at the brotherhood's history files relating to Elders being dismissed from their positions.|
|10||(Optional) Ask Paladin Ramos about the Chain That Binds.|
|11||(Optional) Check the datastore for more information on the Chain That Binds.|
|12||(Optional) Return to Hardin with your findings about the Chain That Binds.|
|13||(Optional) Help Head Paladin Hardin find a way to oust Elder McNamara from his position.|
|14||(Optional) Return to Hardin with the lost patrols' mission discs.|
|15||Return to Elder McNamara with the three patrol mission holotapes.|
|16||Meet with a Brotherhood scout near the NCR Correctional Facility and collect his report.|
|17||Meet with a Brotherhood scout near the town of Nipton and collect his report.|
|18||Meet with a Brotherhood scout near Camp Forlorn Hope and collect his report.|
|19||Return to Elder McNamara with the three scouts' reports.|
|20||Search the vaults in the region for a differential pressure controller.|
|21||Search the vaults in the region for a reverse pulse cleaner.|
|22||Search the vaults in the region for several HEPA cartridge filters.|
- Elder McNamara holds the key to the explosive collar and can be pickpocketed to remove it. If you decide to set the self-destruct sequence while the explosive collar is still on you and leave, it will be automatically removed regardless of whether you took the key or not.
- The reports from the scouts at Camp Forlorn Hope and the NCR Correctional Facility will be different depending on how you completed the quests Restoring Hope or We Are Legion and I Fought the Law.
- The NCR Ranger may spawn a little distance outside of Hidden Valley, past the main gate watching the NCR correctional facility. The game acts like he was in the bunker, however. The explosive collar will not kill you if you go to him, should he spawn outside the bunker.
- You must first complete this quest before the player can join the Brotherhood, or recruit their help at Hoover Dam. If you have not completed this quest and then explain to the Elder that the NCR is looking to destroy them then he will show no concern and state that it would be difficult for the NCR to locate the bunker.
- Whether you decide to help Hardin or McNamara, the lockdown will be lifted.
- Completing this quest will not get you Idolized with the Brotherhood of Steel, you have to play Lonesome Road and prevent the missiles from launching to get Idolized.
Behind the scenesEdit
"Still in the Dark" is a 1950 blues song by Big Joe Turner.
- ps3 pc xbox360 There is a game-breaking bug where, after talking to Elder McNamara to complete the quest, your HUD disappears and you are unable to do anything but go into sneaking and turn around. This can be fixed by completing another quest before speaking to the Elder, and returning to finish the quest. [verified]
- ps3 pc Sometimes Ranger Dobson will spawn away from the bunker, in the middle of the desert to the North, the marker will still have lead to his position though, so this has no effect on the quest. [verified]
- pc xbox360 If you give the holotapes to the elder and continue his quest line, then give the tapes to Hardin, you may effectively lock both quest lines. The effect will be that Hardin will say he'll be busy a few days (taking down the elder), and the elder will say he must prepare his defense. Neither will ever change from this state, no matter how long you wait. To fix this on PC, enter the command prompt (`), then enter the commands: resetquest 0015d79d, setstage 0015d79d 3, setstage 0015d79d 20.
Or if you didn't enter with Veronica's help: resetquest 0015d79d, setstage 0015d79d 2, setstage 0015d79d 10, setstage 0015d79d 15, setstage 0015d79d 20 Then either immediately give the tapes to Hardin and tell him about the second part of the chain, at which point the quest should complete, or never give him the tapes and finish the elder's quest line. [verified]
- pc After bringing the holotapes to Elder McNamara, somehow you cannot continue this quest, the next phase will not start. [verified]
- ps3 After being sent to deal with the NCR ranger you may not be able to move. [verified]
- xbox360 After the cutscene when you encounter the brotherhood finishes, if you have any followers, they might disappear. If you look at your local map, it will show the followers in the top right corner, but you can't get to them. To fix this, simply go into Vault 22 and take the elevator to level 2 or 3 and they should appear in front of you. Make sure to tell them to follow you because they are in waiting mode. [verified]
- pc Helping Hardin to take over the chapter and repairing the filtration system are intended to be mutually exclusive quests. However as long as you have spoken to Lorenzo about the filtration system before Hardin takes over you can still turn in the parts to him and he will direct you to the elder, but McNamara will no longer have the completion dialog. You must pick one or the other, with Hardin's route being easier but resulting in less faction rep (the average player ending up at "accepted") and McNamara's being harder but leaving the average player at "liked." Note also that the quests following their transitions are completely different. This route generates more immediate XP, but leaves the two non-player characters in an error state. They will, for the rest of the game, both only tell the player to come back later. This prevents you from continuing on to the next part in the chain. [verified]
- xbox360 Upon completion of Still in the Dark, if started with Veronica, whomever you choose to be Elder may be stuck and you will not be able to start the other quests. Also, Veronica will randomly stop following you, appearing only when you are in combat, and randomly talk to you. Afterward she will stay wherever she last spoke to you until you are in combat again. [verified]
- pc xbox360 If, in the course of completing the quest ED-E My Love, Lorenzo has asked to look at ED-E, he will not accept the filtration system parts when you have ED-E with you. Simply fire ED-E, talk to Lorenzo, and rehire ED-E. [verified]
- pc ps3 The scout near the NCR Correctional Facility might say his second line when the subtitles show the first line. From there on he will repeat the second line again when it shows up in the subtitles, then finish the rest of the conversation completely normal. Note: This is after you tell the scout the pass phrase, and that the Elder had sent you. [verified]
- pc After dealing with the NCR ranger and returning to McNamara, he could possibly wander into the wall with the first array of turrets, and freeze there. Solution: Enter the console, select Elder McNamara with your mouse or type prid 000e2f87, then kill, then resurrect. Exit the console and he will proceed to his chair in the command room. Note: If you exit the console after entering "kill" but before entering "resurrect," Elder McNamara will die and you will fail the quest. [verified]
- xbox360 Sometimes the quest will become impossible to complete due to a glitch that causes all brotherhood NPCs to become hostile to you.-note: Most likely due to closing the initial bunker door the brotherhood opens for you when first meeting them. The action for closing the bunker door is highlighted in red, denoting that it is an immoral action. [verified]
- xbox360 When at the part of the quest to collect the reports once you have all 3 and return to the bunker the game will freeze (black screen) when trying to enter, to get around this if you have companions with you ask them to wait whilst you are outside the bunker, then enter and you will be able to continue, get you next mission then on leaving the bunker just ask your companions to follow you. [verified]
- xbox360 After ousting McNamara while still in the quest I Could Make You Care certain dialog with Veronica will put you in an endless cycle of talking without any way getting out of it other than loading a save. [verified]
- xbox360 Even if you partition all three viruses when you talk to Scribe Ibsen he will still tell you to look isolate the virus. [verified]
- xbox360 On completion of the quest, the door back to the Hidden Valley Bunker may become locked, leaving you trapped in the bunker. The door cannot be opened without a key, but a key can be pickpocketed from various members of the Brotherhood within the bunker. [verified]
- xbox360 When taking the optional mission for finding the laser pistol you won't be able to find the person who's lost it. Even if you know where the gun is you won't be able to discover it nor pick it up for that matter. The person who's lost it won't even be in the bunker, he's nowhere to be located. [verified]
- pc ps3 xbox360 If you are doing the quest ED-E My Love and you have been asked to talk to Lorenzo giving him ED-E will make him disappear, leaving you unable to complete Still in the Dark. This can be solved by simply waiting a few days until ED-E returns to Primm. [verified]
- xbox360 Sometimes after completing 'Fixing the air filtration system' the autosaves after completion will not load. When continuing straight from menu it will freeze in the loading screen, or if loading in-game, it will load then a pop up will come up saying that save relies on downloadable content and it will crash back to the main menu. You will have to start again from a previous save. [verified]
- ps3 If the player sides with Hardin, when completing the quest, a standing wireframe of McNamara in scribe robes will appear beside the seated McNamara in recon armor. The wireframe McNamara is named Hardin, and when spoken to, the camera pans into the floor and Hardin speaks. [verified]
- xbox360 ps3 pc Sometimes the game may freeze indefinitely upon completion of the quest Still in the Dark. After completing the quest with Elder McNamara still in charge of the Mojave Chapter (after returning to Senior Knight Lorenzo with all the components from the different vaults) the screen will go dark then back to normal and you receive 1300 XP and BoS Fame for completing the quest. As well as that the crosshairs and other icons will disappear and you cannot move or view the Pipboy. You cannot talk to Elder McNamara who is standing directly in front of the player. You can only spin on the spot and enter sneak mode. This glitch is exactly the same as encountered during the quest ED-E My Love after hearing the Russian janitorial voice after Senior Knight Lorenzo speaks his message. On XBox or PS3, The only way out of this glitch is reloading the last save or forcing Elder McNamara to step down from Elder for Head Paladin Hardin to take his spot in the hierarchy after McNamara broke the Chain that Binds. On PC, this can be remedied by going into console and entering "EnablePlayerControls 1011000". You may have to use this command more than once, as the glitch will trigger multiple times when changing cells or talking to NPCs. You will be able to continue the game, but further BoS quests will not be available. There is currently no way to resume BoS quests other than manually via console. [verified]