Forum:Notability of skill magazines

Forums: Index > Wiki discussion > Notability of skill magazines

It's been a commonplace so far to list skill magazines in the notable loot sections, and I'd like to argue this practice should be officially abolished. The way I understand it, there are four points to determine if an item is notable:

•Rarity
•Value
•Use in repeatable quests
•Unusual quantities

Skill magazines fit in none of those categories. As such, they simply don't belong in the notable loot sections.

One argument listed in favor of keeping them notable is to compare them to skill books. The books, however, are rare and have a limited maximum availability (save, for the inclusion of books in the random loot of the workbench crate in HH). Also, unlike magazines, books have a permanent effect.

Another argument is that magazines are particularly useful as they help passing skill checks, and as such are a great help for people, specially in the beginning. To that I say that there is already a list of where those can be found. It's more efficient to search for the magazines of the specific skills you want in that than randomly browsing the nearby area's articles in hopes of finding a magazine of that particular skill you need to boost.

More importantly, skill magazines are in practice only really useful in the early stages of the game. Afterwards, as skills approach the maximum they become increasingly less useful. Coupled with the fact they're remarkably common and cheap, it's far more likely the player will be constantly carrying a 5+ stock of every magazine after a short while, making the need of actively searching for them even less remote. Not to mention the fact that they are become craftable with OWB.

Next, the argument that the articles are better with them than without. I say they are not, as they simply clutter up the lists, which should be by its very definition short and objective. They're supposed to list the things you absolutely shouldn't leave without, and magazines are quite frankly not only useless, but also actually an annoyance for the better part of the game. Sure they are weightless, but they clutter up the inventory (specially the AID section) and make it unnecessarily harder to find specific items you want.

Lastly, I'd like to point out that most arguments in favor of keeping them could be extended to items I'm sure nobody will argue it's notable, such as ordinary chems like mentats or even beer. Those don't belong in the list, just like magazines don't.

"Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away"

Limmiegirl ^{Talk! ♪} 22:28, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Id like to add that according to the current guidelines, they have no business being listed. Limmiegirl ^{Talk! ♪} 22:44, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

You also forgot the layout guidelines "Notable loot: List unique and rare loot here with a short description of where to find it.". 22:51, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Comments

I agree 100% for the removal of the magazines from the notable loot sections. -- Bacon-Man ^{Talk to me goose!} 22:30, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

To me they're effectively the same as Chems like Buffout, mentants, and Jet and should have the same rules applied, whichever way one goes the other should. They're stuff you might go looking for to solve a specific problem, but aren't rare. Agent c 22:32, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

This was discussed way back when and resulted in this page. The only difference between then and now is that FNV has been released and contains skill magazines. In regards to skill magazines, they shouldn't be treated any different than any other temp stat changing consumable such as chems. Other than that there isn't really anything more to be discussed on the subject. 22:42, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

They may not be rare, and certainly aren't valuable, and we are not addressing the matter of unusually large quantities, but there is one thing to this: whereas they are not used for repeatable quests, they can be used repeatedly for different quests, or even in the same quest. Skill magazines are very useful, especially at earlier levels, as many quests or dialogues require skill checks that a player may not be able to meet. In addition, True Police Stories can significantly improve one's chances in combat. Furthermore, the comparison to chems isn't very good since the magnitude of the effects are a lot less, not to mention they are addictive, often have downsides to their consumption, and certain ones such as beer have weight. All in all, skill magazines most certainly are not "notable" by the current notability criterion, but nevertheless they should stay because of their usefulness to the player character - they are not valuable in terms of money, but are invaluable for passing skill checks and moving along in the game. SigmaDelta54 (Talk) 22:54, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

I argued those points in the 4th and 5th paragraphs. Limmiegirl ^{Talk! ♪} 23:13, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

They maybe useful, but so are many other items within the game. Purified water and stimpaks are useful, they rehydrate H20 bars and heal the player, they are also essential for gameplay. Whereas, Magazines are not essential to gameplay. They are optional, for use when skills are not high enough but they can be returned to when you skill is high enough. This is not the same for health or H20 bars as they cannot be brought back up later, especially during a fire-fight. It is this which makes them not essential, but still useful, as such leaving them is ridiculous since they would no longer conform to the standard Notable Loot rules for pages. It may be useful for players to know of specific locations in the eventuality they need them, but that would also apply to ammunition, armour, chems and so on; they are all based upon circumstance, not essential pieces of play. Neko's Page^{Neko's Haunt} 23:03, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

It is true that stimpaks and even purified water may be useful, especially in Hardcore Mode, but both are a lot more common than skill magazines. And they are not essential either, as one could drink from sinks, natural bodies of water, et al. and simply eat (not use stimpaks) or see a doctor. "Optional" isn't the best word either, since often it cannot be helped that certain skills are low (early-on in the game) due to there being no chance to raise them to a required level. SigmaDelta54 (Talk) 23:08, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Anything that increases stats at early levels is valuable to the player, especially anything that increases SPECIAL stats as it has the knock effect of the derived stats, so that argument is kind of weak at best. As for the rest of the argument, those points can be applied to many other items that are currently considered non-notable. I can kinda understand the romantic connection people have to these items, but the problem with that is that it jades a persons judgement to the actual nature of the item. 23:13, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Again though, I refer to my earlier statement, most, if not all, skill checks can be done at another time whereas H20 and Health bars are something of a higher priority in the game. These, if running low, will kill your character but a skill check, though it may indirectly kill your character, still does not have the same weight. It is this which makes the magazines less important, bringing it into the same field as the chems, mentioned above in LimmieGirl's initial forum post, which are not notable. Neko's Page^{Neko's Haunt} 23:15, April 22, 2012 (UTC)