Forum:Model Viewer Discussion

Forums: Index > Wiki discussion > Model Viewer Discussion

First off, hey all! I've been "missing" for a few months or so - but mostly I've been doing mad scientist stuff.:p Which brings me to the topic at hand. If you haven't been checking Twitter, or haven't talked to Jspoel, I'd like to point your attention here. If you click on the infobox, and your browser supports WebGL, you should see the progress of my current project. For those of you who can't see it - it's a model viewer, that's no different in concept than what you'd see in the GECK or NifSkope - only, in this case, entirely web based.

But before I progress any further on this project, with the intent on adding it to Nukapedia, I need a course of action. And to get that course of action, I need your opinions and suggestions on the matter. After all, most of you have put in a lot more time and effort into this site, than I have. If anything, I'm just a glorified interior decorator. :p

What follows are a few key points I need input on, so we can all discuss, and come to agreement on them.

Importance/Focus

To put it simply: This is a wiki covering the Fallout universe, which exists almost entirely in the games that have worn its title. The last two of which, and undoubtedly future releases, have been made in true 3D.

So the question is, how much value - how much importance to the readers, would the addition of this feature have? In other words, how would the ability to see the items, objects, and (eventually) clothing/NPCs, as they appear in game, from the comfort of Nukapedia, affect the popularity and traffic on the site?

This should dictate the necessity, accessibility and notice-ability of the feature in question.

Method

Currently this feature works on the test site, by overriding the larger view of the infobox image. The consensus so far, one that I ultimately agree with, is that this isn't very viable. So the question remains, what would be a good method for accessing the viewer window?

One method, would be to have it work off of a gallery thumbnail - this wouldn't require the need to find a place for something; but on the downside - it would be suffering from the same issues the infobox image did. Namely - when a user clicks on a thumbnail, they expect a larger version of that image - and not completely different media. That's why video thumbnails tend to feature a "play" icon on them.

Another, would be to add a button, somewhere on the page, that simply states "View in 3D". While this would require figuring out a place to put it, on the layout, it's purpose is immediately clear, and takes up less layout space in general, than another thumbnail.

But those are just two options - I'm sure there are other possibilities, so if you think of one, please share. Otherwise, please state your preference. Displaying the viewer directly on the page however, is not a valid option. Too much of a performance hit, to force it on anybody who visits the page. Regardless of the method of accessing it, the popup window, is likely the best overall method of viewing it.

Data Storage/Organization

The original plan of this project, was to create not just a model viewer; but one that could be run "natively" within the confines of a Wikia site. The downside is, that there's quite a few limitations on everything from page size, to accessing images that were uploaded to the site.

In order to compensate for these limitations, I was forced to store the actual .nif file, and its textures (in png format), in (base64) text format, on individual pages. The downside of this, is a bunch of pages that look similar to this. Now, obviously this isn't something that would have a point to be seen by the users.

So, in the interest of keeping things organized, and having a bit more control, I'd first suggest a custom Namespace for these things. Something like "Data:" or "ModelData:". That way, (hopefully), these things could be kept out of the public eye, and not hog up the "recent changes" feed.

Beyond that - is naming conventions. Currently on the test site, they're merely stored using names that are "flat paths". For instance, the above nif file, would be located at /Meshes/Weapons/2handrifle/plasmarifle.nif in the game's data, and on the test site, the page name is Meshes-weapons-2handrifle-plasmarifle.nif. So one option would be storing the page like:

/wiki/ModelData:Meshes-weapons-2handrifle-plasmarifle.nif

But, since pages support paths, this should also work:

/wiki/ModelData:Meshes/weapons/2handrifle/plasmarifle.nif

Doing things like this, will reduce bloat a bit, by allowing multiple models to use the same textures, as they do in game. At any rate, some form of consensus is needed - to make sure that sanity and organization prevails.

One final note: since all files involved are "translated" in the same manner, and the result is the actual file data - anybody that has access to the games files, should be able to contribute, using a site similar to this. The general rule of thumb, similar to the result of Bot-Rewrite, will be to wrap "pre" tags around the data itself. This way, regardless of the file size, it will only appear as a single line on the page itself. For the textures, currently only png are supported - so the .dds textures would have to be converted first to that format. Some additional modifications would be needed for normal maps - as the game uses the alpha channel from those files, as a separate texture type.

Comments, Questions, Concerns, and Opinions

All are welcome, and desired below.

I would like to see this on the wiki ASAP. I think it should be in the Gallery, maybe taking up about 1/2 of the standard page width, inside a template box with a link to a page outlining known tech issues and explaining what it is (for those who cant' see what is supposed to be there. Agent c (talk) 15:54, January 12, 2015 (UTC)