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Ever thougt about the very great loss of Vehicles in FNV?

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Forums: Index > Fallout: New Vegas general discussion > Ever thougt about the very great loss of Vehicles in FNV?
 
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Sometimes i think that it is Strange, that active Vehicles really doesnt appear in FNV. I meen, whats the problem? You won't even see a bike! Strangely because outside the Prospector Salon there's a lot of Harley Davidson's but they're not seemed to be used for real. Could the problem be, that they simply can't get some fuel? I think maybe it's too expensive and rare. But then, why doesn't mr. House own some? If he paided more than 800.000 caps for searching squads to get the platinum chip back, then i think that it simply can't be possible that he doesn't own it.

This seems not to be a problem for Air-vessels, as President Kimball flyes in a copter and the Bommers in the Vertibirds? It all seems very, very strange to me! Paint_you_red

  • shrugs* No clue. Could be lack of fuel. Could be EMP effect of nuclear weapons disabled the engines, which combined with an odd 200 or so years with no matinence, fried them. Could just be a choice by the developers. Avg Man (talk) 03:35, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

Vehicles exist in the Fallout world and continue to be used. NCR uses pre-War trucks to haul cargo, while motorcycles are used by people to get around. The reason they don't get used in-game is because of technical limitations. Gamebryo is pretty crappy with moving stuff. Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 06:39, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

For the most part, cars are a luxury, and luxuries aren't something most people can afford in the Wasteland. It would be more practical for people to strip useful parts out of cars and use that to repair stuff they have more need for (same reason the people in Novac strip down rockets from the REPCONN test site. the individual parts are more valuable than the whole thing put together). The other thing is fuel. Every gas station in the Mojave would be bone dry by now. The only people who had accept to a fuel source was the Enclave, and they used it to make fuel for their Vertibirds. Now I'm not 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure you can't use airplane fuel in a car and vice versa. NCR only has the one vertibird they repurposed as the president's personal shuttle, so that would save on what little fuel they found at Navarro, and even while the Boomers made fuel, it was solely so they could fly the airplane from Lake Mead, not drive cars. Most people carry what they can with them. Any heavy hauling requires a pack brahmin. Driving a sports car in the wasteland just isn't practical. That's the logical reasoning I'd think anyway. But, for a more technical reason it could be what the other guy said; game engine limitations. 71.171.112.74 07:19, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

Heavy hauling is reserved for trains and trucks owned by the biggest factions. Also, NCR probably has more than just one Vertibird, we were just shown one. It's also possible they were repurposed to run on fusion reactors, rather than conventional fuel. Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 08:12, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

I seriously doubt the NCR was able to refit the vertibirds to run with fusion reactors if the Enclave didn't have them built that way. They don't have any fusion running cars, what makes you think they can upgrade a vertibird? They can't even figure out how to wear power armor. The NCR isn't exactly the best faction when it comes to tech. 71.171.112.74 02:52, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

Convenient deus ex machina? The lack of explanation makes me think plot hole the writers couldn't think of a way to patch up... Avg Man (talk) 05:21, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
It isn't a plot hole. The NCR uses fusion-powered vehicles (vide the trucks at McCarran, the 188 and elsewhere), has access to fusion generators (vide Sloan) as well as ethanol-powered ones, and Vertibirds ``do`` use fusion as their power source. All it requires is paying attention to what the game tells and shows you. LAst, Colonel Royez tells me you haven't paid any attention at all. NCR has power training, it`s just hard to train everyone that way and equip them with functional armor. Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 06:48, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
Huh. Alright then, I'll own up to that. If it's explained in game and I either missed it or didn't pay attention, then I'll accept that. As far as the origional topic then, changing every vehicle in the wasteland would likely be far to expensive to be practical, if this is the case. Avg Man (talk) 18:23, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

Colonel Royez doesn't prove anything. You don't know where he learned to use power armor. I'll bet you anything he has former BoS connections. You seem to have forgotten the salvaged power armor the heavy troopers wear. The general had regular power armor stripped down BECAUSE they didn't know how to wear it. It's already a known fact that no one outside the Brotherhood of Steel or the Enclave knows how to wear power armor(ignoring game mechanics where, for example, you can give any of your human companions power armor and they'll put it on despite having no training). And the trucks at Camp McCarren prove nothing either. How do you know they weren't already sitting there? I seem to remember walking around the Capital Wasteland and seeing those exact same trucks sitting around at former national guard outposts. By that logic, the NCR must also be using the airplanes sitting around the airport, except that they are not. If the NCR have functioning army trucks to transport large amounts of supplies, then why isn't the Crimson Caravan Company and the Gun Runners using them and instead using brahmin? 71.171.112.74 19:20, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

Speculation, specultaion, speculation. Fact: Royez wears fully fledged power armor. Fact: Raiders in Fallout 3 wear salvaged functional Enclave power armor. Fact: Heavy troopers wear salvaged power armor with joints stripped out. Fact: No one says anything about it being impossible to learn to wear power armour on your own, just that it's hard to train people to do so (it's actually an arbitrary gameplay limitation, not an actual in-universe problem). Fact: NCR has an actual truck repair depot at McCarran (right from the entrance). As for companies: Gun Runners simply don't need trucks, as the volume of weapons can easily be carried by a brahmin. Same reason why you don't get an eighteen wheeler to move from flat to flat. Brahmins are more effective for day-to-day transport, trucks are better for really heavy duty hauling (such as getting stuff around to set up a military camp in a former airport). Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 21:34, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

You are the one speculating here, Tagaziel. Yes there are raiders wearing Tesla armor around ransacked Enclave outposts, but it is not explained how they'd suddenly figured out how to wear it. That is the game makers ignoring logic for the sake of game mechanics. As I said before, you can give your companions power armor and they'll slap it on no problem, yet YOU need training. Does that make any logical sense? No. Royez can be explained the same way, the game makers wanted to give us a cool NCR-version of power armor so they put in on some soldier with no explanation as to how he figured out how to wear it. A more logical reason is he has former BoS connections, but yeah his background is speculation. However, saying things like "no one says it's impossible to learn how to wear power armor by yourself" is also speculation. The very fact that the NCR had to strip out joints and power sources of power armor so they could wear it is proof they couldn't figure out how to wear normal power armor. One unexplained soldier ignoring lore and logic is not a compelling argument. And as for the trucks, the NCR is NOT using them. They are just sitting there. Name me one NCR military personal that says they use cars and trucks. Name me one terminal entry on an NCR computer that says they use cars and trucks. Give me one note or journel or something that says they use cars and trucks. You can't! I even looked up on the wiki pages. The NCR has use of an extensive railway system in the Core Region(in other words trains), a few Vertibirds they got from Navarro(and I will admit I was wrong earlier when I said they had only one), and the monorail that goes from McCarren to the Strip. THAT'S IT. NO cars and NO trucks. The NCR is not the best faction when it comes to high-tech pre-war stuff. They even have access to energy weapons and NO ONE uses them. So again, to answer the original posters question, people do not use cars because A) It is not practical and B) they don't have fuel. Do not provide a counter point to the argument over vehicles unless you can back it up with solid facts and logic, not statements like "no one says they don't use trucks", because THAT is speculation. 71.171.112.74 01:36, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

The chosen one is not a BOS member (just a regular guy who got some access to some of their facilities). He was trained in Power armour. Ergo, not everyone who has the ability to power armour is in the BOS or Enclave. As for a note that says the NCR use cars, I'll cite MCA's bible which mentions the NCR does have some cars. If some self taught junkyard guy in the Den of all places can make a highwayman go, then the NCR with their vault-supplied knowledge can do it too. Also absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, to assume no mention means it doesn't exist is a blatant falacy. Agent c (talk) 03:10, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Want proof that the NCR has a wide-array of working machinery such as trucks and the like? Why don't you look at the equipment at Sloan. How do you think they got the cement made at Sloan to New Vegas? They used trucks, which are shown to have been destroyed by the deathclaws as they started nesting there. Also, why in the hell wouldn't they be able to learn how to drive cars/trucks if they knew how to build and fly such as advanced vehicle such as the vertibird? (Along with their knowledge on creating trains.) As for power armour, I'm fairly sure that if pissant wastelanders can be taught how to wear power-armour, (F3) then anyone can. The only problem with power armour is learning how to be flexible enough to move with the joints. It's not that hard to learn how to do so, and this is shown in real-life as well, as we've experimented with this field as well. It's absolutely asinine to just blatantly say that it's impossible to learn how to wear power armour from either yourself, or someone who isn't in the BoS/Enclave. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing there. And for energy weapons, yes they do use them. They even have force field technology, as seen in Fallout 2. As for fuel, you do realize there's alternative fuels? Have you not read about the Resource Wars, and how it helped them create fission energy? (Which led up to the Great War, since the States weren't willing to share their new energy source.) Dragon Leon Skål! 02:40, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Fine, maybe I'm wrong about the NCR having trucks. Maybe. But, I still maintain that the NCR doesn't know how to use power armor. Those pissant wastelanders you mentioned were being TAUGHT how to wear power armor, not figuring it out on their own, and they were recruited into the BoS. I'm saying people can't figure it out without being taught. Why else did the NCR have to strip down salvaged power armor in order to wear it? And PC learning to use power armor doesn't count, because they are still being taught by BoS/Enclave regardless of whether they actually join, and I'm pretty sure PCs aren't teaching others to use it too. 71.171.112.74 04:22, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Because they didn't have the time nor the resources to spend time teaching and properly equipping the Mojave recruits. It's even mentioned that most of the soldiers in the Mojave are so poorly equipped and trained, that they're forced to use nothing more than worn down armor and pistols with barely any ammo. The only reason they got their hands on power armour in the first place is because they were told to take over Helios One. (Only reason they won is because of sheer numbers, and even then, they lost most of their men in that battle.) In this case, the standard t-45d power armour they looted from the BoS requires MFC's to power, and on a constant basis. If they don't even have the resources needed to equip their soldiers in the Mojave with decent weapons and armour, then how would they be able to afford a constant source of MFC's, for outdated power armour? So they ripped out everything that needed to be powered, and now they get to wear armour that feels like they're carrying a tank on their back. I would also like to point out that there is actual proof that the NCR knows how to use power-armour. If you've truly played the original games, then you would know that the NCR and BoS of Lost Hills had entered into an uneasy alliance, which allowed them to share technology with each other. This is especially prevalent with the vertibird plans, which were looted from Navarro by the NCR, and then shared with the BoS for their part in helping the PC against the Enclave. Then, after they took over Vault City, they gained the option to mass produce their own weapons and armour; including, yes, power armour. Both the t-45d edition and the t-51b edition. Dragon Leon Skål! 04:29, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

You guys go ahead and believe what you want. I know the difference between what is fact and logical and what is speculation and wishful thinking. You have no solid evidence to prove that anyone in the NCR wears true power armor other than one unexplained random zombified NPC added in Lonesome Road, and that's not good enough for me. 71.171.112.74 09:22, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

You haven't provided any proof, while we did back up our position with facts, taken directly from the game. You are unwilling to have a discussion and dismiss any argument as "ignoring lore and logic," which is ironic, considering that you are the one continuously ignoring evidence presented by us. Power armor training is an arbitrary gameplay limitation imposed by the developers, nothing more. Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 13:27, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Maintenance is the main reason why NCR ain't using all that stuff regularly. Sure they can salvage more than a few trucks, but can they keep them (all) at the working state on daily basis? Seems not. Simple example: tyres - they wears out and must be replaced even if after multiple restorations. Can NCR produce *new* tyres? Possibly, yes, but definitly not in industrial quantities. Now think about all gaskets, drivetrain belts, clutches, bearings, spark-plugs, e.t.c., e.t.c., e.t.c. ... See, daily usage of trucks requires whole industries (chemistry, metallurgy, machine-tool construction, e.t.c.), to support it. Thats why they use brahmins - all you need to "fix" a "broken" brahmin, is a new brahmin (and 2 bullets, if you are humanist) . Same applies to PA. Armored breast plate, basically is a piece of metal and will serve, untill it gets physically destroyed. Joinst and activators will become inoperable by itself, just because of natural wear and tear. Thats why they remove all moving parts, not because they can't figure out how to use them. --Theodorico (talk) 15:49, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Good post, but one thing: diesel fuels are used for power generators, trucks and vehicle operate on nuclear (fusion and fission) reactors. Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 15:56, August 14, 2012 (UTC)
Oops! I messed up realities. :) But point stays the same, just replace mechanics with electronics, where it's applicable. --Theodorico (talk) 16:18, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

The biggest problem I imagine isn't power (nuclear power) but lubricants. Portable nuclear power makes bikes and cars and trucks possible, but the lack of petroleum based lubricants makes them impractical. Trains and such can be nuclear or even in FO3 era wood powered, but the transmissions are probably greased with brahmin fat, which is going to require constant replacement as animal fats do not do very well as high temperature lubricants . Presumably the NCR is using limited confiscated enclave stocks of lubricants to keep their verti-birds running but there cannot be enough of those to supply a fleet of trucks. This also applies to electricity generation, frictionless sources like solar cells and Mr. Fusion power plants still work, but wind, deisel and even hydro (the Hoover Dam) power generation is only possible with constant maintenance to replace the inferior lubricants used.

Things were different back in the 20th and early 21st centuries when there was plenty of petroleum (enough that cars actually burned the stuff) but access to the last Earthly sources of petroleum for use as lubricants was what caused to Resource Wars. No doubt the NCR senate occasionally sees someone proposs an expedition to Alaska to see if some petroleum might be found in the last place on Earth which had it, but surely it was all extracted during the Great War.

As for PA, even if people can learn to use the stuff, it takes a fairly advanced technological base to build and maintain it. No doubt the joints are pretty tightly machined to be able to function without lubricants and also require regular replacement. This would explain salvaged PA, the joints are removed not because of the lack of power but because the joints are seized up, perhaps the still functioning joints are cannibalized to replace ones on a few suits of still functioning PA like those worn by certain top NCR brass. 75.67.220.84 06:43, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

Power armor: the Fallout 3 developers almost certainly added a requirement for power armor training to keep players from looting the power armor from the Brotherhood Outcasts who so often died on patrol. Because the game was so slapdash, companions and raiders were free to wear power armor (I even read about some weirdo who reverse-pickpocketed Enclave power armor onto all the residents of Little Lamplight, showing that obnoxious children were better able to wear power armor than the Vault Dweller.) The NCR Salvaged power armor is just really heavy metal armor with an AC unit to keep the trooper from dying of heat exhaustion. It provides no strength bonus and doesn't even give you radiation resistance, so it's not power armor. One guy in an add-on able to use power armor doesn't prove that the NCR has a power armor training program, just that one guy can use power armor. Trucks: You'd think that if the NCR was using trucks, they'd have cleared the road from the Mojave Outpost down to the bottom of the hill. You'd also think that if they were using the trucks near Sloan, they'd have added tires (Chomps says the concrete is shipped by rail). If we're talking about the trucks at McCarren, you'd also expect that they would have replaced the windshields, and they certainly would have painted NCR logos on the trucks (like they did on Kimball's vertibird). That same truck model shows up at the old nuclear test site, so it's not that special. Finally, that particular truck model can't even be conclusively called nuclear powered because it doesn't explode when heavily damaged. So those are just derelict pre-war trucks (remember, McCarran had a military presence before the war) that, for some strange reason, have tires. Overall some people are putting a little too much thought into 'evidence' from a game whose developers weren't too careful when it came to consistency or logic. Jwtutor (talk) 08:05, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

It might have been said before but the only reason we have not seen vehicles even being pulled by Brahman is just lazy programming.

  • A tragic lack of fuel reserves might be their first excuse but that dose not mean a Nuka Cola truck could not serve as a fine wagon.

SaintPain TinySaintPainThat was broke afore I got here." 08:18, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

I never thought about not having personal vehicles. I don't think the game needs them, and they can be explained away through the storyline. And anyway, it's much more fun to walk the wasteland than to ride around it, I think. Bldudas (talk) 12:56, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

I dont want to argue about game engine limitation and shits. My speculation is solely on plot, background, stories alone.

To have cars running you need dedicated industries for parts, skilled repairmen, and fuels. On West Coast, they get skilled techinician out of several vaults (Vault City, vault 15, Broken Hill and Gecko ghouls), parts from big cities and ports like LA and SF (industrial regions have stuffs like that than foods), and fuels in three sources: Broken Hills uranium mine (and power generators there and Gecko), SF organic oil (developed by the Chinese faction there), and the Oil Rig. That's why you have cars running on West Coast.

What about Mojave? Where would they find skilled repairman? NCR? Funny you should say that because the best Repair 100 man is a high level NCR officer. Quite telling, dont you agree. But logical if you think about it because NCR is a nation of merchants and cattle cowboys, not industrial one. The Legion? Ha-ha. That bunch of kilties know shit. The broken and running remnant of Brotherhood of Steel as well as Enclave? The second word should tell you their state. Parts? Where? Las Vegas is an entertainment hub, not industrial. No other big city. Fuel? NO oil because there's nothing to spare from the coast. No spare fusion reactors. No uranium mine.

The NCR try to compensate for that by building railway: a small fusion engine can be put on train and save a lot of trouble in dealing with three problem above. The merchants drive brahmins.

So yeah, if they can make a car for us to use, it will be more work to explain. But a lack of car is self-explain in this context.Laclongquan (talk) 06:02, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

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