I'm not sure if this has already been discussed but I've gone through quite a few of the forum list pages and found no mention of it so I thought I'd go ahead and ask: What do you guys think of Ashur's method of rebuilding? I'm always interested to hear what people on here have to say about moral questions like this one.
- It's a viable method of rebuilding. Sure, to us, with our morals and no nuclear war that has fucked the world up beyond all recognition, they seem brutal and merciless. However, since the Great War destroyed humanity and morals, I believe Ashur can be excused. Slavery and fascism are morally reprehensible, but when the long term goal is the restoration of Pittsburgh as an economical superpower in the wastes and a cure for Pitt mutations, I think his means can be accepted. Tagaziel (call!) 08:14, February 5, 2010 (UTC)
Okay, thats one view. Anybody with an opposing view? Raymorn 10:57, February 5, 2010 (UTC)
- Well, the ethics of survival are tricky enough without attempting to rebuild to past glory. Is Ashur acting ethically? Probably not, but thats not really the question. I guess it comes down to *cringes* the greater good. Will the benefits to society outweigh the morally abhorent act of slavery? There aren't any complete answers to this one, but I think that whilst he is going for personal gain (achieved through a seemingly benevolent goal) the majority of people in the Pitt will be slightly better off for it. Ishotamaninnewreno 13:11, February 5, 2010 (UTC)
I think there would be more general benefit from being fair with the labor force there. The "Greater good" shit just doesn't cut it when it comes down to actually benefiting more people than the ruler(s), and that's why this DLC is so morally ambiguous, because you have two people who are full of shit, trying to manipulate you to their own means. They could just as easily research a cure to the mutations without exploiting everyone or kidnapping the baby, maybe even better so. Ashur seems a little sociopathic to me and on the other side, you have Wernher, who seems to be mainly interested in nothing more than seizing power over the town. Metalfrenchtoast 21:54, February 5, 2010 (UTC)
Wow, I've never thought that hard into it but Metalfrenchtoast has a pretty good idea... Andromada101 01:02, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
One of my two favorite quests in F3. Tough choices.. I sided with Ashur in the end, but he better prepares for a bullet to the head if nothing has changed when the Lone Wanderer comes back in a few years. Thats how I dealt with it. If Ashur's only big talk, there will be someone who'll do justice on him. Kamuikaze 01:35, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
- OK, so he wants to rebuild, no shit? But the way he's going about it is wrong. Instead of working them to death he could make them work less hard and employ more BUT burn out less in the long run so costs would be the same or lower.
- However, I think it's the situation he got himself in.
- The town was already fucked up with a scavenger upper class who could get stuff (like armour and weapons) and the ultra-lower class (i.e. the slave types).
- So when he came to power there wasnt much he could change. And, if he does change it now with the LW it is likely that the slavers may revolt and kill him.
- And it seems the other slavers rather than ashur get more pleasure torturing slaves than he does but he allows it to keep their loyalty/respect or indifferent attitude.
- This would cause the slaves to revolt. Either way, he is (was?) stuck in a creek.
- Whats morally ambiguous in The Pitt is do you allow Ashur to continue to bring in success/stability at the cost of the slaves or do you steal his baby and kill him?188.8.131.52 23:38, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
Well ended up stealing the baby for the slaves. Why? Well think about it, the system may have a strong leader, but the whole idea to Ashur's kingdom is all in his head, and maybe his wife's. The slaves still feel like crap, forced to work in bad conditions, eat food that turns you into a ghoul/trog, and random executions. The slavers on the other hand are on a power trip that is/was fueled by Ashur's BoS training. If everything was to remain the same without the Lone Wander showing up, the whole place would have gone to hell once Ashur died. The slavers livelihood is already well established, and if Ashur dies, none of that would change or could even get worse. So in the end they either go through slaves to quickly or the slaves revolt. Even if you disregard any problems at the start, if/when a cure is made, and Ashur wants slavery to be abolished, will it? Aren't the slavers a little too comfortable? Even if the slaves are freeded, it's not like they still won't be pissed. RadScarab 06:43, February 14, 2010 (UTC)