Forum:Adminship Request - Tocinoman

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Forums: Index > Wiki proposals and applications > Adminship Request - Tocinoman

Heyoooooo all! If you don't recognize me, my name is Tocinoman, and I'm applying for administrator rights! You might remember me from my previous request for moderator. In fact, I am going to recycle a bit of that request into this one. I ask that you please read through this whole thing and take every detail into consideration, as I know this position is being handed out more frequently than usual (not without good reason, of course).

You're already a moderator, why do you feel that you should be given admin tools?

Countless, and trust me when I say countless, times now, I've had anons, new users who don't understand the rules, and overall vandals running amok during my chat hours. In case you are unaware, my hours are a timeslot in which there are no administrators consistently logged on. Examples of these are anons making spam pages that can't simply be moved to a userspace such as BitCoins, users going on vandalism sprees, and edit wars. I feel very confident in saying that I have earned administrator rights. While I do actively work to purge the bad stuff, DON'T get me wrong. I think that I may speak for everyone that sees my contributions in saying that I add to the wiki much more than I remove from it. I would also like to remind those of you reading this that administrator is not a rank, but rather gives the user a few extra buttons with which I know I will excel. To answer the section's question, being a moderator pays off, but there is only so much one can do with rollback, patrol, and chat rights (and might I add that I've used all three very responsibly without any actions that have been disputed and/or overturned by a fellow mod/admin). I also have a lot of experience as a lurker anon (way back into the Vault days), and I know what helps and is more useful to the average user. If you'd like to know more about me, you can read my user page and talk page. And trust me, I wouldn't even think of making this request if I didn't absolutely know that I had the leadership abilities do to my job effectively.

Edit Count

There should have been a list of this user's edit counts here, but the edit counts feature is no longer available.

Contributions

I'm not going to bother to go into the corrections of minor issues such as grammar, formatting, overlinks, non-notable bugs/loot and such that I've made because I'd have to write an entire new forum to list everything in that category. I'll make it easier on the rest of you, and myself for that matter, and list everything via bullets:

• One of the 'Big Three' participants in the Bug Verification Project, which has had astounding results thanks to our work.
• Contributed quite a bit to the Fallout 3 locations project (my contributions are in the A-F section). These contributions taught me a lot about how tables and infoboxes work, and I would now consider myself pretty darned good with them!
• Actively participate in the Anti-cap project.
• Revived the then-dead Quest project back to active status, with great results. I'll also add that in this project, I have added several quest stage tables which were then missing. I have first-hand experience as a lurker anon and I can't tell you how helpful those tables are.
• Created the Fallout 3 and NV quotations project and have been on a hot streak in participating in it (All but a few of my contributions are in the F:NV Characters section). The project is already looking to be a huge success.
• Created the following articles:
  • Scalpel (Fallout Tactics)
  • Emily
  • Great Awakening
  • Fallout 2 bugs
  • Phrax
  • Merchant Market
  • Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel bugs
  • Junk (Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel)
  • Nomads
  • Albert
• Using my off-time and my Fallout 3 GotY Guide to add and verify useful information.
• Hate to repeat myself, but as stated previously: removing countless bad faith edits, reporting users/IP addresses, and keeping pages vandal-free.
• Very actively moderating the chat and mediating in numerous disputes, changing the topic when needed, protecting innocent users from insults, spam, and just plain-old trolls, really. I would certainly think of myself as a very assertive leader who doesn't let people walk all over him, yet stays strong and fair.
• At the time of this request, I have 2,010 mainspace edits, and that will continue to grow every day.

Conclusion

Those are the cold, hard facts, my friends. I want you all to vote fairly and honestly. I also ask you to be absolutely sure before you vote (and remember you can change it). If you are unsure, but don't want to vote neutral, remember there is a comments and a queries section for you to use. Be it to get to know me better, to ask me to go over anything I failed to cover, or anything else. Thanks and happy editing! -- Bacon-Man ^{Talk to me goose!} 06:07, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Poll

Poll finished on 4:52 am May 3, 2012 (UTC).

• A consensus must be reached by voting before any action is taken.
• You can vote by placing one of the following lines in the appropriate section:
  • Use # {{yes}} ~~~~ if you support the proposal.
  • Use # {{no}} ~~~~ if you are against the proposal.
  • Use # {{neutral}} ~~~~ if you wish to abstain.
• Please do not edit other user's votes.

Votes

• Broccoli. 04:54, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
• God damn... I wanted to be first on the list. 07:27, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
• MS: Destiny conquers all. Actually, people do have some good arguments. Sorry to say. MS: Destiny conquers all.
• See comments Limmiegirl ^{Talk! ♪}
• I earlier discussed this with Lim in chat and I agree with her; I think you need more time to mature. ^{"Say 'ello to my little friend!"}
• You've done good work in the time that you've been here, don't get me wrong. I just feel it is too soon for you to become an administrator. Just keep working on your attitude, and develop a little seniority, and you'll do well on a future request.-- 13:44, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
• You're a top lad but I just don't think you've been here long enough yet. Kiwi 15:14, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
• Don't get me wrong, you're a good guy, but, I've seen enough of the good and the bad to vote no. The Cyan Dragon 16:15, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
• I got much love for you homie, don't get me wrong, but it may be too soon right now. You have done great for this wiki, helping me out a bunch on the Bug Verification project and everything else you have done. The way you handled Hopelite the other day makes me think a little about the way you might handle your issues in the future as an admin. I know it was a little event but it still made an impression. ToCxHawK 22:37, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Got much love for you homie, I think you have proven yourself after our numerous convos. ToCxHawK 23:57, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

• After watching the incidents and actions, I have no doubt you have decent contributions, however, despite that, I believe you need to control yourself a bit more (and this is coming from a guy who's coolheaded as a volcano), and try to steam down a bit on the new guys, despite the mistakes, a few have actually just done what they thought was right or so. Can't blame em for being new to the rules around here, other then what the others say, and stepping up your game, I don't see anything else. That's my honest two cents, you fire-breathing dragon. Stay cool dude (in short,just try to stay your wrath on the new people, and think matters in a more serious manner, I know it's frustrating, but once you want to hit Adminship, you usually have to look at things in a neutral non-ill temper look and see the mature options, just throwing it out there) .--Zerginfestor 08:06, April 27, 2012 (UTC)
• Yes, you may be voted agaisnt because of some problems that came up recently, and I'm sorry for what's going on. I still don't know what to vote on, but my vote probably doesn't matter.--For NCR 15:07, April 27, 2012 (UTC)
• Even though you're a great editor on this site, I think it's a little early for an Admin request, especially with all this nonsense that's been popping up lately. Charcoal121 15:57, April 27, 2012 (UTC)
• I really don't care about the Bearded Hoplite incident. We all make mistakes, sometimes emotions just get the better of us. I put a lot of thought into it though, and I decided at the moment I can't really vote yes or no on this request. I like you. You do a lot of great work with reverting blatant vandalism and clarifying the bugs sections in the main article space. However, I don't think your work so far has warranted a promotion like the one you're asking for. I believe Administrators need to have the ability to debate their points thoroughly. I believe Administrators need to radiate authority. And while you do very good work here, I don't believe you possess those traits. Keep growing and gain a little more experience here before putting some more thought into this. It'll allow you more perspective on whether or not this is really a position that you can handle properly. ^Skål!
• Obviously competent, and in my opion trustworthy and deserving. BILLYOCEAN ^{Wanna talk?} 00:33, April 28, 2012 (UTC)
• That conversation is increasingly looking like a one off. You've been extremely level headed since then. As long as nothing objectionable comes my way, this vote will stay a yes. Agent c 00:47, April 28, 2012 (UTC)
• From what ive seen, there's been alot more good than bad with your current powers, your level headed most of the time, your there when your needed, you do your job (banning when needed and editing, espicaly thing like the bigger projects) and your frankly you don't seem like the person who would abuse an adminship, so after a bit of thinking and looking around, im gonna vote yes on this. Best of luck to you--Emiko~<3 05:49, April 28, 2012 (UTC)
• Definitely. You've proven to be a really good moderator on the chat, as well as the website itself. I'm pretty new to this community, but you're the one moderator who always greets me when I join the chat, makes me feel welcome here, and seems to be on when others aren't. So I say yes. TheScout201 05:50, April 28, 2012 (UTC)
• Absolute no. I'm in agreement with Limmie - You are in no way ready, only started editing consistently since January 15th, not to mention massive shortcomings in general maturity, demeanour, and several other abilities and traits an admin should possess. Numerous times have I seen posts from you, whether it be an edit summary, talk page message, or even on the fora, that are completely inappropriate for someone in an administrator position. You lack professionalism in communication and sometimes are too belligerent. Your habit of bad-mouthing others in chat and thus spreading malignant rumours doesn't help either. Furthermore, I have seen little to nothing in terms of argument ability from you, which is crucial and extremely important when it comes down to making significant decisions during administration. And finally, some of your edits still show major inexperience and a lack of knowledge in the workings of the wiki and while I like your ardour in editing, your editcount is still not too impressive for an administrator. --Skire (talk) 13:26, April 28, 2012 (UTC)
• I do not believe you are level-headed enough; I know I was not always reasonable during the weapon arguement, but calling me a "Fuckbag" is becoming of an admin. Bearded Hoplite 15:20, April 28, 2012 (UTC)
• As per all other no votes. -- 10:12, April 29, 2012 (UTC)
• From my brief observations, it seems to me that you do not have the correct level of professionalism or experience required for an administrator position. In what I have seen, you seem to lose composure far too quickly when dealing with simple issues. Furthermore, in the comments section of this application, you further disputed the negative claims made against you, rather than taking the criticism constructively. Collectively, these incidents show me that you are not ready for this level of responsibility. However, these things are relatively moderate in severity and easily corrected. Thus, I wish you the best of luck in the future. AFollower 08:34, April 30, 2012 (UTC)
• Don't understand why so much hate. --    Contr        KOROMO        Talk      03:53, May 1, 2012 (UTC)
• My comments below The Gunny
• I don't know a whole lot about you (I've been mostly inactive for serveral months) however based on the feedback I've seen I think its too soon for you to become an admin however I think that if you continue to do good work and improve on the things highlighted in the comments I think you'll be an admin sooner or latter. --RAM 11:52, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Queries

I am trying out a new section here rather than just using the old request format that we all know and love. This is just an idea of mine, and if it doesn't work out or seems redundant, we just won't use it in the future. When I thought of it, it seemed like a genius idea to me, so here's its trial run. You may be wondering how the 'queries' section differs from the 'comments' section. The 'comment' section, as we all know, is a way for voters/other users/B'crats to communicate with both the candidate and the other voters. This has worked ok in the past, but sometimes, two or more users can get into a dispute with each other and it can prevent the candidate from getting his/her message across because of the large paragraphs and several comments left around that of the candidate. The 'queries' section is going to be used for any user or potential voter to make a query directly to the candidate and have the latter answer said query without interference from another user. The 'comments' section will remain for users to converse among themselves with occasional posting by the candidate. Let's see how this works! Remember that you may NOT edit another's conversation, the candidate's answer, or interfere with another conversation. Please try to keep this as organized as possible. Thanks!

• Query 1 goes here, with every next part of the conversation being marked with colons, and eventually outdents.

Comments

Hey Toci, you know I generally think you're great, but the situation with User:Bearded Hoplite on the wiki and in chat is still fresh in my mind, and it wasn't handled well. Because of this I cant vote yes today. I will however be watching and as long as it seems like a one off at the closure I can offer my support. Agent c 11:00, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

I have to say I'm not pleased with the way you've been handling yourself in some issues, specially the way you talk down at people, sometimes for good-faith mistakes. The affair Agent C pointed to is a good example, but it's far from the only one. You've been contributing a lot, and I've witnessed from the beginning your enthusiasm, and I can't fault you on that. But being an administrator requires more than that, it needs a certain maturity which I honestly think you don't have yet. Limmiegirl ^{Talk! ♪} 13:26, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Yes. I full-on lost my cool that day and it was totally uncalled for. While I have apologized and made amends over that situation already, I can't seem to think of another time I've talked to someone like that. Also, I've been in several other disputes such as that one where I did in fact stay blunt and neutral, while maintaining my own point of view. Anyone who is regularly in my chat hours will tell you in fact that the situation in question was almost unseen by any of them, as I otherwise always handle myself appropriately, with dignity and respect. I'm not asking you to change your vote, if you vote no then I accept it, all I ask is that you be sure that you've thought it through. :) -- Bacon-Man ^{Talk to me goose!} 22:33, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Probably a bit off-topic, but as per the 'seniority' bit, I'd just like to point out that (I know the majority of you aren't American, but still) Teddy Roosevelt and John F. Kennedy were the youngest people to ever be President of the U.S., and they were two of the best we've ever had. I don't think age/date of signup should even matter in determining if a person is a good leader, but that's just my two-cents. -- Bacon-Man ^{Talk to me goose!} 22:39, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Did I miss something regarding this Hopelight gentleman? I don't recall seeing anything about it...? Or is it not worth bothering with? 05:28, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

Long story short. Wanted to put in weapon speculation in articles. Got told no. So him mad. ^Message 05:36, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, and I got very impatient with him and lost my temper. -- Bacon-Man ^{Talk to me goose!} 21:40, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

I'm a little bit surprised at some of the votes. I think people are judging Tocino too quickly on that one incident. I highly doubt that if he became an administrator, he'd treat everyone like that. BeardedHoplite was being irrational, consistently protesting a rule with no evident intention to stop. Not to mention his talk page shows that the same issue occurred two years ago, so he knows full well what he was doing and kept on doing it. I agree that Tocino lost his temper, but it seems that everyone is judging him on that one moment and forgetting the hard-working, dedicated and friendly Tocino who we all know would make a great admin. I'm sure some of you have had a moment in life where you've been fed up with someone and yelled at them. I'm not saying you need to change your vote, I'm just saying it's surprising how many people are fixated on something that frankly was not that big of an issue to begin with. 23:59, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

Bah, don't worry about it, man. This forum is a lost cause already XD -- Bacon-Man ^{Talk to me goose!} 00:02, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Regardless though, I'm going to finish what I started. It ain't over 'til it's over! -- Bacon-Man ^{Talk to me goose!} 00:53, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

That's the spirit! You know... bribes never hurt anyone. ;) ^Skål! 00:54, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

They also don't get you anywhere ;) -- Bacon-Man ^{Talk to me goose!} 00:56, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Don't be a buzz-kill. :( That's not the point. xD ^Skål! 00:58, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Right, so the point is during a zombie apocalypse, CHECK XBOX LIVE -- Bacon-Man ^{Talk to me goose!} 01:05, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

You saw that, did you? :D ^Skål! 01:07, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Wait, who exactly did you make amends to? Bearded Hoplite 15:29, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

To you, buddy. As soon as that incident was over, I took full responsibility and publicly apologized to you and you said no hard feelings. -- Bacon-Man ^{Talk to me goose!} 15:41, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Also, to Sigma, what "malignant rumors" have I spread? I only ask for ways of bettering myself for the future. -- Bacon-Man ^{Talk to me goose!} 15:42, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

I'll answer you in chat. --Skire (talk) 16:33, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Pardon the language, but where the fuck did the claim that Toci still has major inexperience and knowledge of how the wiki works come from? ToCxHawK 17:08, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

I would like to remind everyone to remain civil on this request please. Toci has remained calm and understanding throughout this whole thing, and I would like to ask everyone to act the same way as well. ^Skål! 17:14, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Don't trip Leon, I'm still civil, too relaxed not to be ;) ToCxHawK 17:16, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Don't mean to step on any toes. :) Just making sure it remains that way. ^Skål! 17:18, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Haha, well I've always been the one to try and keep it civil, or at least I think I am :P ToCxHawK 17:27, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Too bad pseudo-civility doesn't counteract ignorance. Take a look at this edit, or this one. This is not the kind of inexperience I want to see from an admin. --Skire (talk) 18:05, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry I don't look every single edit Tocino makes. I trust that a majority of his edits aren't like that. We all make mistakes, and Toci has probably learned from those mistakes. You can't say you don't mess up sometimes because everyone makes mistakes. ToCxHawK 20:13, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

These are not mistakes, obviously. They show a lack of understanding in how things work. And they weren't hard to find, either. I just pay attention to things. And I would appreciate it if you could stop bothering me over this as my vote will not change nor will I give any concession. --Skire (talk) 20:15, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

I was never trying to change your vote, and nor do I want to. I just wanted an answer and I got one, so calm down. ToCxHawK 20:25, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

@Sigma: Your comments are highly exaggerated. I can't see anything wrong with those edits. I don't really think putting a humorous edit summary means that he's not fit to be an administrator. And maturity? No offence, but the maturity argument is ridiculous - this is coming from someone who threatened to leave if he didn't become an admin, and used to write offensive messages to people then cross them out as a joke; and if age is a problem, Tocino is several years older than you.
Not to mention he has double the amount of edits that I had when I ran for administrator, so that's hardly a reason to deny him extra rights. I don't know if you remember, but only until very recently, the maximum edits to be an administrator was 500 - That's what most of the veterans had to aim for. I hope I don't come off as rude, that's not my intent, I just find some of the things you've mentioned to be exaggerated as if to villainize Tocinoman. 23:36, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Great, more harassment about my vote. You're saying I shouldn't note his immaturity because of poor decisions I made months ago amidst heavy emotions? Fine then. And if you can't see anything wrong with those edits then let me explain: one of them he manually added in the Category:Image needed instead of inserting {{Image needed}}. On the other one, he moved a section into a wrong order. Should an admin not know the proper operations for these type of edits? About the maturity argument being ridiculous: I'm clearly not the only one who is saying that he needs to mature. And please don't confuse age with maturity - when someone younger than him is noting his immaturity, you know it's a problem. And as we are on the internet, I don't even think real-life age should have any prevalence here. Maturity is maturity, biological age is biological age. And about the edits, I do not give a shit about this site's minimums, I have my own standards for admins. And when you applied, you had a mere minimum, but I felt it was outweighed by your character, which I admired (past-tense). I had more edits than him on my first request and I hadn't even been editing for that long. I'm not trying to "villainise" anyone, only to express my view, and clearly I'm not the only one. --Skire (talk) 23:49, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Sheesh... I wasn't trying to harass you, Sig. I was just very surprised at your vote - it was uncharacteristically harsh by your standards, especially considering Tocino is such a nice guy. You didn't need to get upset. I never claimed I was mature - I was just saying that you called Tocinoman immature when you've shown it more in the past. As for his edits, he made one mistake adding a category. That's one mistake out of literally two thousand edits... I'm sure even Jspoelstra himself has made a few similar mistakes here and there. And no need to make this about me; I never intended to make it personal against you, but to say that you no longer respect me is rather hurtful. 23:57, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

You know what? I'm honestly sorry, that was too rash of me. Your initial comment I took too offensively and personally. In light of recent incidents, I simply want to ensure that only the best join the administration, and I don't feel Tocino is quite there yet. I've got nothing against him personally. And I didn't mean to make this about you either, I just felt you drastically changed since the Cartman! incident. --Skire (talk) 00:01, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

Sigma, I have to say I'm a little dissapointed in your arguments against him. If you want to vote no, it's perfectly fine. But as far as making an example out of those two edits, that in no way makes him a bad editor, we all make mistakes such as that. You say above that you just don't feel he's ready yet, I may reword the vote, if I knew nothing of Nic and saw you vote, I would think he's an awful user. You are more than entitled to your opinion, but that was quite harsh.-- 00:09, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

It was never my initial intention to use those examples, as I didn't want to hurt his chances even more like that. But then Hawk challenged that statement, so I provide actual examples to prove that my point is not baseless. And contrary to popular belief, those edits are not mere mistakes, they show a lack of understanding. I don't mean to be extremely harsh but I'm telling it as I see it. --Skire (talk) 00:12, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I just feel it is a little nitpicky to take those edits that are over a week old as an example. I mean, I'm sure we could find mistakes in that recency from all of us.-- 00:24, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

Only reason why I said anything because I know Tocino, he makes good edits like all of us, and a few bad ones too. Everyone makes a mistake here and there but there was really no reason to call him out on his lack of knowledge and understanding that harshly by two edits recently. If it was a string of bad edits, then maybe. I just want to put in a small word on the maturity part. Most are long gone when Toci is on, so many nights it's just me and him and I see the way Toci handle situations without any of my help in a mature way. I don't think you are around him enough to be able to grasp his personality and demeanor, to be able to judge him fully on his maturity. Finally on the edit count, if I remember correctly you had around the same amount of edits when you first applied and you and Toci are roughly equal in the amount of time being here when you first applied. ToCxHawK 00:39, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

(←)  Not at all. When I had applied I'd only been editing for only 2.5 months (didn't meet minimum requirements there, but no one (including myself) noticed), and had over 3,000 edits. And he definitely doesn't handle things maturely, at least not to an extent that an admin should, as shown in the very recent Bearded Hoplite incident. I will not post specific examples this time, but there have been quite a few (as Limmie said) embedded in the near-past. I have no intention of furthering arguing my vote as I've done enough here already. Please realise that while you are defending Tocino, I end up having to share my stance more, which could seriously affect other voters. --Skire (talk) 00:42, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

This...is just excessive. So I ran for admin, big deal. There's no need for all of you to be fighting like this. Sigma, I did feel that a simple "no you aren't ready" would have sufficed for your vote, but regardless I didn't take any of it personally. Yessie, I very much appreciate you sticking up for me, I really do, but it's been pointed out to me numerous times now that I'm not ready for this position yet. Ry, I thank you for mediating on that argument while I was out tonight, good job. Also, if I may defend myself on the edit in which I moved the 'notes' section to the wrong place, I made an honest mistake and didn't see the appearances section right above it. I was going to fix it once I noticed, but by the time I clicked edit, Sigma had already intervened. I apologize if I sound harsh with this statement but I really feel that I need to stick up for myself, and I want to say right now that I am sick of being called a bad editor for two very minor mistakes that I made in the past. I don't mean to sound conceited, but in my opinion I am a very good editor. Maybe not the best, but skilled nonetheless. -- Bacon-Man ^{Talk to me goose!} 05:59, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

@Danny: I feel that the part about having to be able to argue in your vote is a tad redundant. Many admins do very little in the way of arguing, and that does not weaken their ability as an admin. Many, such as Jspoel, obviously prefer to stay out of the fora, and out of arguments, and stick to the edits, and that does not make them any worse at using their tolls and powers. Just because you are a tad like me, and like to get your point across in the fora, there is no weakness in not wanting to argue. As ironic as it seems with this post, I think that encouraging an argumentative attitude is absurd. My mentor, if you will, hardly ever spoke out unless he felt the absolute necessity to, and he was one of the strongest admins there was here; and I'm not the only one who has said that. I'm not trying to make you change your vote, or argue with me, but just to think about the implications of advocation that kind of attitude. Φύλαξ ^{[~μίλησε μου~]} 17:14, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

And whilst I am weighing in, this is correct as the notes section is meant to go above the gallery so that people don't have to scroll past it to see the notes. Aside from appearances, then references, gallery is meant to go at the bottom. Not only did you not look properly at what he did, you made a mistake of your own. Also, whilst I am making polite requests, please stop talking down to people. Just because you were made admin, does not mean the humility that we saw (and that swung your uneasy vote) should be lost. I'm not liking the trends that you are reverting to, and although your opinions mean as much as everyone elses, please stop putting it in a way so that it makes it seem like they are worth more, or like you think they are. No offense intended, just a friendly nudge in the right direction whilst I'm looking around due to withdrawal ;). Φύλαξ ^{[~μίλησε μου~]} 17:21, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

The "notes" section always belongs above the "appearances" section. And while I may have been to harsh with those examples, in general I haven't seen enough from him yet. I realise this all may sound a bit too excessive but truly it is only so he can improve for the next request (which I have faith that he will). And about the argumentation, Ci, I am not advocating excessive argument, but expecting that people can present and defend points effectively, something that our mutual mentor can do well. And I yet fail to see this "talking down to people" that seems to be such a problem with me. I could honestly use a few examples, as to avoid further instances of the sort. I am not imposing my views on anyone else, but merely defending them when others are questioning or criticising them. My views are just that - my views. I do not think they are necessarily more important than anyone else's. And finally, if you have a problem with me please talk to me about it on my talk page, not in the comments here. This might sound a bit hostile but it isn't intended to be so. I have said enough and won't post here again. --Skire (talk) 19:31, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

Conversation continued on Sigma's talk, not because I have a problem, but really because it is irrelevant to Toc's request. Φύλαξ ^{[~μίλησε μου~]} 20:04, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Ahh, judging by your conversations about me on both of your talk pages, I see neither of you acknowledged my defense of my honest mistake that I posted right before your little dispute here. To re-enunciate myself, I made an honest mistake in that I didn't see the Appearances section above the Notes section, and by the time I did notice it, Siggy had already intervened. By the way, Sigma, I am getting VERY tired of seeing you say that I have a "lack of experience as an editor" due to one honest mistake. I apologize for my lack of absolute perfection. Just so I don't end this reply on a bad note, I have nothing against you. I just thought I'd point out something in your comments that I've noticed. -- Bacon-Man ^{Talk to me goose!} 04:48, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Actually I posted 2 examples, the other one being the more significant one. But you could completely disregard those edit examples and my vote would still remain the same. They are relatively insignificant compared to the other points I and many others have noted. I wouldn't call you a bad editor, but you certainly aren't experienced enough to become an admin yet. --Skire (talk) 10:53, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

No, because to be honest, I hadn't read it. If you had read what me and Sigma were discussing closer, then you would have seen that I pointed out a mistake that he made too. I was actually defending that edit. Φύλαξ ^{[~μίλησε μου~]} 15:38, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

The Metro car one may have been an honest mistake, but the other one isn't. And let me reiterate: these examples are insignificant at best and can be completely disregarded. And it's not just due to one honest mistake - you are not experienced enough to be an admin nevertheless. Admins need full knowledge of the site, not only for their work but to address queries from less-experienced users. You are simply not at that stage yet. --Skire (talk) 18:32, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

I get what you're saying, trust me. It's just a tad annoying being labelled as inexperienced and talked to by a self-proclaimed veteran who has only been here two months more than I. In no way am I trying to change anyone's vote here. Anyone who thinks I have any shot at this is a fool. No, now I am trying to defend myself and show that I can take a message without being walked all over with the sympathetic tone. Like I've said several times, I got tough skin, so don't sugar coat anything. Just give stuff to me straight in the future ;) -- Bacon-Man ^{Talk to me goose!} 22:39, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

(←)  "Talked to by a self-proclaimed veteran" - Another tasteless comment, when did I ever "proclaim" myself to be a "veteran"? I am aware of my relatively short time here for an admin but that is completely irrelevant to this vote. And I'm not sugar-coating anything, rather I'm giving it all to you quite candidly (and receiving some negative feedback on that part too). I honestly hope you can improve significantly for a future request. --Skire (talk) 00:26, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

Sig, I've held my tounge enough here. I think thats enough. Agent c 00:29, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

That's what the hell I've been hoping for all along. --Skire (talk) 00:32, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

My reluctance to vote for you is based mostly on your comportment, with two areas specifically worrying. The way you responded to BeardedHoplite was not what I'm looking for from someone in a leadership position. Also, your position on people asking game questions in chat troubles me. I expect leaders to be more helpful, rather than dismissive. To me, these are the areas you need to improve on. The Gunny 04:27, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

Result

Sorry, Tociman. Too many users voted no, so I can't justify promoting you to admin at this stage. Strange, I expected you to come closer personally, because I've mainly seen good steady editing and working on the projects from you, but appearantly the community is seeing some things that first need improvement. I'm sure that if you take that at hand, next time you will succeed. Jspoel 20:03, May 3, 2012 (UTC)